Peak Oil
Donate Bitcoin

Donate Paypal


PeakOil is You

PeakOil is You

UK Minister: Banks are F'd, We're F'd, the Country's F'd

Discussions about the economic and financial ramifications of PEAK OIL
Post a reply

UK Minister: Banks are F'd, We're F'd, the Country's F'd

Postby mattduke » Thu 22 Jan 2009, 11:16:31

How do you like your government-banker crime syndicate now?

guardian

Link courtesy of cryptogon.
User avatar
mattduke
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 3591
Joined: Fri 28 Oct 2005, 03:00:00
Top

Re: UK Minister: Banks are F'd, We're F'd, the Country's F'd

Postby Jotapay » Thu 22 Jan 2009, 11:37:14

There is a real interesting thread about this over on Ticker Forum. Genesis (Karl) has some smart things to say about it, I think.

The UK is screwed, no matter what. The way it's described over there, is that they have two choices, to continue to promise money that doesn't exist and get gangraped and left for dead a la Iceland, or withdraw liquidity and just get normal raped. It doesn't sound pretty and I sure as crap would not want to be in the UK right now.

http://www.tickerforum.org/cgi-ticker/a ... post=79428
Last edited by Jotapay on Thu 22 Jan 2009, 17:08:03, edited 1 time in total.
Jotapay
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 3394
Joined: Sat 21 Jun 2008, 03:00:00
Top

Re: UK Minister: Banks are F'd, We're F'd, the Country's F'd

Postby Maddog78 » Thu 22 Jan 2009, 11:40:01

Gotta love that quote in there.
I wonder if any North American newspapers would even have the guts to print something like that.
User avatar
Maddog78
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude
 
Posts: 1626
Joined: Mon 14 Jul 2008, 03:00:00
Top

Re: UK Minister: Banks are F'd, We're F'd, the Country's F'd

Postby Sixstrings » Thu 22 Jan 2009, 15:15:14

It appears the UK press is being far more blunt about things than our own press.

I wonder how similar the US situation is to the UK? From one of these UK articles, I read that the bad debts are more than the nation's entire GDP. What I'm not clear on is the situation in the US.. I believe our total GDP is 13 trillion. Anyone have an idea of the total on bad debts the government is guaranteeing (or will end up guaranteeing)?

Remember, I'm talking about getting a peg on the *bad* debts, not total debt. My hunch is that perhaps we're not in nearly as bad shape as the UK.
User avatar
Sixstrings
Fusion
Fusion
 
Posts: 15160
Joined: Tue 08 Jul 2008, 03:00:00
Top

Re: UK Minister: Banks are F'd, We're F'd, the Country's F'd

Postby Snowrunner » Thu 22 Jan 2009, 15:49:36

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', 'I')t appears the UK press is being far more blunt about things than our own press.

I wonder how similar the US situation is to the UK? From one of these UK articles, I read that the bad debts are more than the nation's entire GDP. What I'm not clear on is the situation in the US.. I believe our total GDP is 13 trillion. Anyone have an idea of the total on bad debts the government is guaranteeing (or will end up guaranteeing)?

Remember, I'm talking about getting a peg on the *bad* debts, not total debt. My hunch is that perhaps we're not in nearly as bad shape as the UK.


It's harder in the US. The 11 Trillion debt that is shown around is just the Federal debt, from what I understand if you also throw in all the other Government levels you are closer to 25 Trillion.

As far as the UK vs. the US goes: I would consider the UK the canary in the coal mine. They do not have the benefits of the USD which is currently still shielding the US from the worst, but how long this is going to last is anybodies guess.

I think both countries are in an equal position, just how far down the slope they are is different.
User avatar
Snowrunner
Tar Sands
Tar Sands
 
Posts: 795
Joined: Wed 24 Aug 2005, 03:00:00
Location: Screwed
Top

Re: UK Minister: Banks are F'd, We're F'd, the Country's F'd

Postby Sixstrings » Thu 22 Jan 2009, 15:55:01

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')t's harder in the US. The 11 Trillion debt that is shown around is just the Federal debt, from what I understand if you also throw in all the other Government levels you are closer to 25 Trillion.


Well, what I'm asking about are the "toxic debts." The bad mortgages, credit card debt, personal and business commercial paper.

I'm just curious if the amount of known defaulted debt that the government is/will be guaranteeing excedes our GDP or not.
User avatar
Sixstrings
Fusion
Fusion
 
Posts: 15160
Joined: Tue 08 Jul 2008, 03:00:00
Top

Re: UK Minister: Banks are F'd, We're F'd, the Country's F'd

Postby bratticus » Thu 22 Jan 2009, 16:46:23

re-running this due to increased relevance:
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '[')b]Supermarkets' emergency plans to keep shelves full

... Fears that scores of supermarket suppliers will go bust next year have led the country's major chains to draw up emergency plans to replace them, The Observer can reveal. ...
User avatar
bratticus
Permanently Banned
 
Posts: 2368
Joined: Thu 12 Jun 2008, 03:00:00
Location: Bratislava
Top

Re: UK Minister: Banks are F'd, We're F'd, the Country's F'd

Postby AlexdeLarge » Thu 22 Jan 2009, 16:59:24

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he Baby Boomers have had their moment in power. The most spoilt generation in history has handled affairs with its characteristic hedonism. The results are coming in.

The blithering idiots.
Viddy well, little brother. Viddy well.
User avatar
AlexdeLarge
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude
 
Posts: 1806
Joined: Tue 20 May 2008, 03:00:00
Location: I have a whole ward
Top

Re: UK Minister: Banks are F'd, We're F'd, the Country's F'd

Postby Cid_Yama » Thu 22 Jan 2009, 19:40:26

<i>The Baby Boomers have had their moment in power. The most spoilt generation in history has handled affairs with its characteristic hedonism. The results are coming in.</i>

Idiot. It was the Reaganite Yuppies, not the baby boomers. Obviously, you are too young to know the difference.
"For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth; to know the worst and provide for it." - Patrick Henry

The level of injustice and wrong you endure is directly determined by how much you quietly submit to. Even to the point of extinction.
User avatar
Cid_Yama
Light Sweet Crude
Light Sweet Crude
 
Posts: 7169
Joined: Sun 27 May 2007, 03:00:00
Location: The Post Peak Oil Historian
Top

Re: UK Minister: Banks are F'd, We're F'd, the Country's F'd

Postby BlueGhostNo2 » Thu 22 Jan 2009, 20:07:39

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('cbxer55', 'T')he number I have heard is 53 trillion when you throw in Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid.
I think we are as farked as the UK if that number is anywhere near true.


The thing to realize is the US debt is all denominated in US dollers, the US can stiff it's creditors by defaulting or slowly stiff them by inflating. The option of slowly stiffing them is bad but MUCH better than a default. (and is infact what the US has been doing for ages). The US is also very strong economically, this is balanced by a HUGE government and HUGE individual consumption.

However the combination of these two facts mean individuals can reduce consumption further without hitting real (absolute) poverty. And the final level of sustainable consumption per person is probably alot higher as there are real industries which can absorb the employees and export.

Contrast that with the UK, we've just taken on a huge load of non £ denominated liabilities in the shape of banks. So inflation will make paying those back alot harder.

Our major export was financial services (~20% gdp) we also had high tech engineering (might be useful if renewables / fusion take off) but hardly any natural basics to export, no food, no oil nada.

So, I think the UK is absolutely more buggered than the US, but there are countries out there less buggered than either.

Denmark, NZ, Aus, etc
User avatar
BlueGhostNo2
Peat
Peat
 
Posts: 124
Joined: Tue 24 Jun 2008, 03:00:00
Top

Re: UK Minister: Banks are F'd, We're F'd, the Country's F'd

Postby lawnchair » Thu 22 Jan 2009, 20:54:26

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cid_Yama', '
')Idiot. It was the Reaganite Yuppies, not the baby boomers. Obviously, you are too young to know the difference.


I always viewed the Reaganite yuppies, or at least those who carried his torch through the later 80s and until the very last few years, as a an influential subset of, primarily, baby boomers. Am I wrong, there?
At 1% annual growth, human bodies will incorporate every gram in the observable universe in approximately 10,170 years.
User avatar
lawnchair
Tar Sands
Tar Sands
 
Posts: 866
Joined: Wed 20 Oct 2004, 03:00:00
Top

Re: UK Minister: Banks are F'd, We're F'd, the Country's F'd

Postby Sixstrings » Thu 22 Jan 2009, 21:04:33

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'F')ears that scores of supermarket suppliers will go bust next year have led the country's major chains to draw up emergency plans to replace them, The Observer can reveal.

(from supermarket article link posted above)

The Brit press are really on top of this. Is there no contingency planning regarding supermarkets in the US, or are we just not told about it?
User avatar
Sixstrings
Fusion
Fusion
 
Posts: 15160
Joined: Tue 08 Jul 2008, 03:00:00
Top

Re: UK Minister: Banks are F'd, We're F'd, the Country's F'd

Postby mattduke » Thu 22 Jan 2009, 21:04:58

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BlueGhostNo2', 'T')he thing to realize is the US debt is all denominated in US dollers, the US can stiff it's creditors by defaulting or slowly stiff them by inflating.

Good thing you and I are smart enough to understand that but the holders of trillions in bonds aren't, so they won't have any temptation to sell them until they've been thoroughly screwed!
User avatar
mattduke
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 3591
Joined: Fri 28 Oct 2005, 03:00:00
Top

Re: UK Minister: Banks are F'd, We're F'd, the Country's F'd

Postby GeneralGreen » Fri 23 Jan 2009, 11:52:29

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('GASMON', '[')img]http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7607/pictures/Image7.gif[/img]

My signature sums up the British spirit.

Gasmon

Try cutting and pasting a modern day MacDonald's eater, a few wiggers, a few video players, a couple football fans, a few sloths at the local bar, a few high school Britney Spears..and that is modern day UK...
Sorry those Spitfire pilots have all died off..Apples and oranges.
User avatar
GeneralGreen
Lignite
Lignite
 
Posts: 241
Joined: Fri 04 Jul 2008, 03:00:00
Location: Europe: European Historian
Top

Re: UK Minister: Banks are F'd, We're F'd, the Country's F'd

Postby charliebrownout » Fri 23 Jan 2009, 13:39:33

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('GeneralGreen', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('GASMON', '[')img]http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7607/pictures/Image7.gif[/img]

My signature sums up the British spirit.

Gasmon

Try cutting and pasting a modern day MacDonald's eater, a few wiggers, a few video players, a couple football fans, a few sloths at the local bar, a few high school Britney Spears..and that is modern day UK...
Sorry those Spitfire pilots have all died off..Apples and oranges.


Kind of like this?

Or this?

I don't know about anyone else, but I find it kind of heartening to know that America hasn't cornered the market on losers. :)
User avatar
charliebrownout
Lignite
Lignite
 
Posts: 290
Joined: Thu 17 Apr 2008, 03:00:00
Top

Re: UK Minister: Banks are F'd, We're F'd, the Country's F'd

Postby AlexdeLarge » Fri 23 Jan 2009, 13:58:05

America puts its Chavs in high government office..................
Viddy well, little brother. Viddy well.
User avatar
AlexdeLarge
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude
 
Posts: 1806
Joined: Tue 20 May 2008, 03:00:00
Location: I have a whole ward
Top

Re: UK Minister: Banks are F'd, We're F'd, the Country's F'd

Postby charliebrownout » Fri 23 Jan 2009, 14:11:52

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AlexdeLarge', 'A')merica puts its Chavs in high government office..................


And other countries don't? I'm sorry, I don't follow....
User avatar
charliebrownout
Lignite
Lignite
 
Posts: 290
Joined: Thu 17 Apr 2008, 03:00:00
Top

Re: UK Minister: Banks are F'd, We're F'd, the Country's F'd

Postby JPL » Fri 23 Jan 2009, 16:52:43

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('GeneralGreen', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('GASMON', '[')img]http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7607/pictures/Image7.gif[/img]

My signature sums up the British spirit.

Gasmon

Try cutting and pasting a modern day MacDonald's eater, a few wiggers, a few video players, a couple football fans, a few sloths at the local bar, a few high school Britney Spears..and that is modern day UK...
Sorry those Spitfire pilots have all died off..Apples and oranges.


Ah, but the General mis-understands the terrifying (for an enemy) traditional British stratagy, which is based on a complete inability to do maths. Brits usually handle complex and overwhelming odds by simply ignoring them. There is a cultural reason for this...

Funny how the world trusted us with all that money really (oops....)

JP
Nothing ever happens, nothing happens at all
The needle returns to the start of the song
And we all sing along like before

Del Amitri
JPL
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude
 
Posts: 1264
Joined: Sat 18 Mar 2006, 04:00:00
Location: Off with the Fey Folk
Top

Re: UK Minister: Banks are F'd, We're F'd, the Country's F'd

Postby Quinny » Fri 23 Jan 2009, 17:00:21

I bet you're glad you didn't return now!
Live, Love, Learn, Leave Legacy.....oh and have a Laugh while you're doing it!
User avatar
Quinny
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 3337
Joined: Thu 03 Jul 2008, 03:00:00
Top
Next
Post a reply

Return to Economics & Finance

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest



cron