Donate Bitcoin

Donate Paypal


PeakOil is You

PeakOil is You

Trying To Find A Job Is Not A Job

Discussions about the economic and financial ramifications of PEAK OIL

Re: Trying To Find A Job Is Not A Job

Unread postby shortonoil » Thu 07 May 2009, 21:48:27

deMolay said:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'B')ig Gubmint and Freedom can never co-exist.


It is doubtful if Big Gub and Peak Oil can co-exist either. Which means - PO wins.

We’ll have at least 40 years to figure out how to slay this monster once and for all. Get out your swords and put your thinking caps on!
User avatar
shortonoil
False ETP Prophet
False ETP Prophet
 
Posts: 7132
Joined: Thu 02 Dec 2004, 04:00:00
Location: VA USA

Re: Trying To Find A Job Is Not A Job

Unread postby odegaard » Thu 07 May 2009, 23:02:02

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ayoob', 'E')veryone deserves food, health care, free education through the post-grad level, fast response law enforcement, shelter, clothing, and a guaranteed retirement at 60. There is no question about it!

It should all be provided by the government, even if that means taxing the greedy down to sackcloth and ashes.
The world needs rich people because the rich invest their money into widget factories which provides jobs for all of us:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_YnaHNcISw
"They're not too big to fail, they're too big to bail out!" Peter Schiff
odegaard
Lignite
Lignite
 
Posts: 382
Joined: Tue 21 Apr 2009, 00:36:50

Re: Trying To Find A Job Is Not A Job

Unread postby Aaron » Fri 08 May 2009, 08:17:42

The old mechanisms of social Darwinism and free market competition are breaking down as they become less useful due to the changing landscape of human society.

Basically we have become so skilled at gaming the system that so called "trickle-down" economics no longer functions as it did in times past. Couple this with a declining moral sense of obligation to your fellow man, and you get the greatest stratification of wealth in human history.

Greed is no longer considered the vice it once was... it's a staple of the modern business community.

Without the restraints of these moral restrictions to behavior, and coupled with unprecedented sophistication in fleecing the sheeple, we get the greatest poor/wealthy gap ever known.

From outright wage slavery (read China), to so called "Prosperity Gospel" Christian theology, to economic bubble exploitation of markets, the gloves have come off and the world finds itself in an economic steel-cage death match... no restraints... no rules... just combat. The problem is akin to matching a feather-weight against a heavy-weight... with a very predictable outcome. Until the feather-weight fighters have been pushed too far that is, and we find this button-down, Oxford-cloth psycho might just snap, and then stalk from office to office with an Armalite AR-10 carbine gas-powered semi-automatic weapon, pumping round after round into colleagues and co-workers. This might be someone you've known for years. Someone very, very close to you.

It's a cycle... rinse & repeat

The Times They Are A-Changin'

Dylan

Come gather 'round people
Wherever you roam
And admit that the waters
Around you have grown
And accept it that soon
You'll be drenched to the bone.
If your time to you
Is worth savin'
Then you better start swimmin'
Or you'll sink like a stone
For the times they are a-changin'.

Come writers and critics
Who prophesize with your pen
And keep your eyes wide
The chance won't come again
And don't speak too soon
For the wheel's still in spin
And there's no tellin' who
That it's namin'.
For the loser now
Will be later to win
For the times they are a-changin'.

Come senators, congressmen
Please heed the call
Don't stand in the doorway
Don't block up the hall
For he that gets hurt
Will be he who has stalled
There's a battle outside
And it is ragin'.
It'll soon shake your windows
And rattle your walls
For the times they are a-changin'.

Come mothers and fathers
Throughout the land
And don't criticize
What you can't understand
Your sons and your daughters
Are beyond your command
Your old road is
Rapidly agin'.
Please get out of the new one
If you can't lend your hand
For the times they are a-changin'.

The line it is drawn
The curse it is cast
The slow one now
Will later be fast
As the present now
Will later be past
The order is
Rapidly fadin'.
And the first one now
Will later be last
For the times they are a-changin'.
The problem is, of course, that not only is economics bankrupt, but it has always been nothing more than politics in disguise... economics is a form of brain damage.

Hazel Henderson
User avatar
Aaron
Resting in Peace
 
Posts: 5998
Joined: Thu 15 Apr 2004, 03:00:00
Location: Houston

Re: Trying To Find A Job Is Not A Job

Unread postby vision-master » Fri 08 May 2009, 09:05:23

Image
vision-master
 

Re: Trying To Find A Job Is Not A Job

Unread postby MarkJ » Fri 08 May 2009, 10:21:16

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '&')quot;Retraining for what?" At the beginning of the decade, computer skills were all the rage; then the low-level computer work vanished to India. Air-conditioner repairing is popular right now, and big-rig truck driving is a perennial favorite.


HVAC/R techs, especially those with CDL/Hazmant/Tank, automotive experience and residential/commercial A/C, oil burner, gas burner, hydronic and steam experience have always been in demand.

If they're temporarily unemployed/under-employed, they can always do some nice money side jobs like residential A/C, automotive A/C, furnace/boiler/water heater installation/service/repairs, plumbing work, tank installations, chimney liner installations, fireplace/stove installations, electrical work, light construction work etc.

Looking at some local papers in somewhat depressed regions, there are always health care and HVAC/R jobs.
User avatar
MarkJ
Tar Sands
Tar Sands
 
Posts: 649
Joined: Tue 25 Mar 2008, 03:00:00

Re: Trying To Find A Job Is Not A Job

Unread postby vision-master » Fri 08 May 2009, 11:04:55

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MarkJ', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '&')quot;Retraining for what?" At the beginning of the decade, computer skills were all the rage; then the low-level computer work vanished to India. Air-conditioner repairing is popular right now, and big-rig truck driving is a perennial favorite.


HVAC/R techs, especially those with CDL/Hazmant/Tank, automotive experience and residential/commercial A/C, oil burner, gas burner, hydronic and steam experience have always been in demand.

If they're temporarily unemployed/under-employed, they can always do some nice money side jobs like residential A/C, automotive A/C, furnace/boiler/water heater installation/service/repairs, plumbing work, tank installations, chimney liner installations, fireplace/stove installations, electrical work, light construction work etc.

Looking at some local papers in somewhat depressed regions, there are always health care and HVAC/R jobs.


Nope, I know someone who has been doing HVAC work for 40 years. His business dried up. He is remodeling a house right now to flip.

I was in HVAC/R for 25+ years. I bud of mine (ex co-worker) said newpapers ads have gone from from 30 to 40 each Sunday to one or two.
vision-master
 
Top

Re: Trying To Find A Job Is Not A Job

Unread postby MarkJ » Fri 08 May 2009, 11:31:24

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MarkJ', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '&')quot;Retraining for what?" At the beginning of the decade, computer skills were all the rage; then the low-level computer work vanished to India. Air-conditioner repairing is popular right now, and big-rig truck driving is a perennial favorite.


HVAC/R techs, especially those with CDL/Hazmant/Tank, automotive experience and residential/commercial A/C, oil burner, gas burner, hydronic and steam experience have always been in demand.

If they're temporarily unemployed/under-employed, they can always do some nice money side jobs like residential A/C, automotive A/C, furnace/boiler/water heater installation/service/repairs, plumbing work, tank installations, chimney liner installations, fireplace/stove installations, electrical work, light construction work etc.

Looking at some local papers in somewhat depressed regions, there are always health care and HVAC/R jobs.


Nope, I know someone who has been doing HVAC work for 40 years. His business dried up. He is remodeling a house right now to flip.

I was in HVAC/R for 25+ years. I bud of mine (ex co-worker) said newpapers ads have gone from from 30 to 40 each Sunday to one or two.


We've seen many unsuccessful HVAC/R companies, employees and self employed, even in high growth, low unemployment regions, but anecdotal evidence doesn't change the fact that successful techs, the self employed or businesses are busy and/or hiring.
User avatar
MarkJ
Tar Sands
Tar Sands
 
Posts: 649
Joined: Tue 25 Mar 2008, 03:00:00
Top

Re: Trying To Find A Job Is Not A Job

Unread postby RedStateGreen » Fri 08 May 2009, 13:54:08

Sharon Astyk has a nice response to that article. She talks about bartering, the informal economy, and getting as far out of the money economy as possible.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('efarmer', '&')quot;Taste the sizzling fury of fajita skillet death you marauding zombie goon!"

First thing to ask: Cui bono?
User avatar
RedStateGreen
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude
 
Posts: 1859
Joined: Sun 16 Sep 2007, 03:00:00
Location: Oklahoma, USA
Top

Re: Trying To Find A Job Is Not A Job

Unread postby threadbear » Fri 08 May 2009, 14:34:28

Red State, Fantastic article. Thanks :)
User avatar
threadbear
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 7577
Joined: Sat 22 Jan 2005, 04:00:00

Re: Trying To Find A Job Is Not A Job

Unread postby nobodypanic » Fri 08 May 2009, 15:23:04

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('The_Toecutter', ' ')
Considering that the top wealthiest 1% of the world's population consume more than the bottom 90%(which still includes half the world's middle class), there is more than enough to go around for everyone...

that really depends on whose perspective you take. if you look at it from the perspective of the top 1%, then NO, there clearly isn't enough to go around--what, 6.5 billion people w/private G3 gulfstreams and yachts? i don't think so! now since you mention the middle class, let's take that as the basis... now, w/o crunching any of the numbers, i feel pretty confident in asserting that you still can not have 6.5 billion people living up to even that standard (i could be wrong, but i doubt it).

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('The_Toecutter', ' ') the problem is that it is poorly allocated. The ecological footprint of your typical Al Gore or Rex Tillerson would be about that of 30 upper middle class Americans(who drive $80,000 cars and live in 5 bedroom homes), and THAT is the real problem that so few seem willing to address when talking about "powerdown". Kill the consumption of the super rich, and there may be room for not just a sizable middle class along with all those less well off without exceeding the Earth's carrying capacity...

no kidding, i said all of that, didn't i? :P

i think we're pretty much in agreement, mostly.
User avatar
nobodypanic
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude
 
Posts: 1103
Joined: Mon 02 Jun 2008, 03:00:00
Top

Re: Trying To Find A Job Is Not A Job

Unread postby The_Toecutter » Sat 09 May 2009, 17:17:29

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('nobodypanic', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('The_Toecutter', ' ')
Considering that the top wealthiest 1% of the world's population consume more than the bottom 90%(which still includes half the world's middle class), there is more than enough to go around for everyone...

that really depends on whose perspective you take. if you look at it from the perspective of the top 1%, then NO, there clearly isn't enough to go around--what, 6.5 billion people w/private G3 gulfstreams and yachts? i don't think so! now since you mention the middle class, let's take that as the basis... now, w/o crunching any of the numbers, i feel pretty confident in asserting that you still can not have 6.5 billion people living up to even that standard (i could be wrong, but i doubt it).


I mean keeping perhaps 2 billion at the living standard of your average European and keeping everyone else fed, until we can allow peoples' basic needs to be met, begin reducing IMR, reduce the need for large numbers of third world offspring to care for their parents in old age, and by deault, dramatically reducing reproduction rate. The population could, in theory, be able to decline over this century without much death or upheavel.

I don't think it will happen; despite the ability to do it with our level of technology, those making all of the money in conventional energy sources, energy-intensive agricultural practices, unneeded wars(which consume much resources and energy along with providing a reduction in the Earth's carrying capacity due to the environmental devastation that ensues in them), along with the chain of industries that stem from these, will no longer be making all the money. A large chunk of today's super rich would cease to exist by default of J6P's money no longer flowing to them.
The unnecessary felling of a tree, perhaps the old growth of centuries, seems to me a crime little short of murder. ~Thomas Jefferson
User avatar
The_Toecutter
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 2142
Joined: Sat 18 Jun 2005, 03:00:00
Top

Previous

Return to Economics & Finance

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests

cron