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They're All Against Jobs

Discussions about the economic and financial ramifications of PEAK OIL

Re: They're All Against Jobs

Unread postby mos6507 » Tue 22 Dec 2009, 14:15:44

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', '
')The working classes shop at Walmart because...


They shop at wal-mart because they want cheap, not quality. When you vote for cheap over quality again and again and again, it sends a message upstream and before you know it you wind up with Big Macs & Hot Pockets, plywood McMansion exurbs built by illegal aliens, lead painted toys, and melamine in baby formula.

For instance, my dad, unsatisfied by the worn down toaster we were using, decides to buy a new toaster. Sure, the new toaster looks good out of the box. But within the first week of using it the knob snaps off. Then he buys a couple new chairs for the living room. Turns out one of them didn't have the metal threading installed for one of the screw-on feet. My dad is a frugal shopper and that's what happens to you when you shop based on price alone.

In a normal universe, because of population increase and "peak everything", you'd have price inflation. Instead, in order for everybody to keep up appearances, we resort to this sleight of hand. Furniture is made of sawdust and glue with a cheap woodgrain sticker applied, and sold for what solid wood furniture used to sell for. Food portions shrink, either with or without the box. Everything shifts from metal to plastic (I remember the first time I saw an all-plastic VCR, insane). You name it, someone will try it. It's "they don't make em like they used to" write large. And you wonder why people jones for Steampunk, even if it's faux steampunk.

We're basically living on the equivalent of movie props rather than real products.
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Re: They're All Against Jobs

Unread postby Hawkcreek » Tue 22 Dec 2009, 16:22:10

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')hey shop at wal-mart because they want cheap, not quality. When you vote for cheap over quality again and again and again, it sends a message upstream and before you know it you wind up with Big Macs & Hot Pockets, plywood McMansion exurbs built by illegal aliens, lead painted toys, and melamine in baby formula.

For instance, my dad, unsatisfied by the worn down toaster we were using, decides to buy a new toaster. Sure, the new toaster looks good out of the box. But within the first week of using it the knob snaps off. Then he buys a couple new chairs for the living room. Turns out one of them didn't have the metal threading installed for one of the screw-on feet. My dad is a frugal shopper and that's what happens to you when you shop based on price alone.

In a normal universe, because of population increase and "peak everything", you'd have price inflation. Instead, in order for everybody to keep up appearances, we resort to this sleight of hand. Furniture is made of sawdust and glue with a cheap woodgrain sticker applied, and sold for what solid wood furniture used to sell for. Food portions shrink, either with or without the box. Everything shifts from metal to plastic (I remember the first time I saw an all-plastic VCR, insane). You name it, someone will try it. It's "they don't make em like they used to" write large. And you wonder why people jones for Steampunk, even if it's faux steampunk.

We're basically living on the equivalent of movie props rather than real products.


Good post. We can't afford hands-on craftsmanship, but we can afford to buy the same item 2 or three times.
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Re: They're All Against Jobs

Unread postby 2cher » Tue 22 Dec 2009, 16:45:15

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', '
')The working classes shop at Walmart because...


They shop at wal-mart because they want cheap, not quality. When you vote for cheap over quality again and again and again, it sends a message upstream and before you know it you wind up with Big Macs & Hot Pockets, plywood McMansion exurbs built by illegal aliens, lead painted toys, and melamine in baby formula.

For instance, my dad, unsatisfied by the worn down toaster we were using, decides to buy a new toaster. Sure, the new toaster looks good out of the box. But within the first week of using it the knob snaps off. Then he buys a couple new chairs for the living room. Turns out one of them didn't have the metal threading installed for one of the screw-on feet. My dad is a frugal shopper and that's what happens to you when you shop based on price alone.

In a normal universe, because of population increase and "peak everything", you'd have price inflation. Instead, in order for everybody to keep up appearances, we resort to this sleight of hand. Furniture is made of sawdust and glue with a cheap woodgrain sticker applied, and sold for what solid wood furniture used to sell for. Food portions shrink, either with or without the box. Everything shifts from metal to plastic (I remember the first time I saw an all-plastic VCR, insane). You name it, someone will try it. It's "they don't make em like they used to" write large. And you wonder why people jones for Steampunk, even if it's faux steampunk.

We're basically living on the equivalent of movie props rather than real products.



I would love to spend three times more than what something is worth, but as the old axiom goes, poor people have poor ways.
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Re: They're All Against Jobs

Unread postby pablonite » Tue 22 Dec 2009, 19:44:30

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', 'T')hey shop at wal-mart because they want cheap, not quality.

Here is an article with a view on the quality - quantity thing...

Sorry Mos, it's global research again :lol:

The Long Decline of the American Economy
http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=16639
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')deally, companies exist to provide products and services to people. If the products and services are good, the companies prosper; if they aren't, the companies fail. That's risky, so American companies inverted this model. They fed the public the notion, which has rarely been questioned, that a company's responsibility is solely the financial welfare of its stockholders.
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Re: They're All Against Jobs

Unread postby Stonemason » Tue 22 Dec 2009, 19:51:02

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', 'A')nother anti-outsourcing diatribe. Let's be honest. We voted for outsourcing with our wallets.


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Re: They're All Against Jobs

Unread postby Sixstrings » Tue 22 Dec 2009, 21:13:02

While we're on the subject of Walmart.. here's how Walmart avoids a lot of state taxes:
Image
http://walmartwatch.com/img/blog/wsj_taxrelief.gif
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Re: They're All Against Jobs

Unread postby Keith_McClary » Wed 23 Dec 2009, 00:28:58

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', 'p')lywood McMansion

Plywood? If you're lucky you get chipboard (OSB?).

I've seen some sheathed with a brown crumbly board that you can poke your finger through. I guess it's strong enough to support vinyl siding.
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Re: They're All Against Jobs

Unread postby Tanada » Wed 23 Dec 2009, 08:28:28

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Keith_McClary', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', 'p')lywood McMansion

Plywood? If you're lucky you get chipboard (OSB?).

I've seen some sheathed with a brown crumbly board that you can poke your finger through. I guess it's strong enough to support vinyl siding.


Agreed, a lot of the homes built during the boom time are very substandard and won't last for nearly as long as their older neighborhoods.
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To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.
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Re: They're All Against Jobs

Unread postby MarkJ » Wed 23 Dec 2009, 09:37:43

When I was 14, I worked at a relative's glove manufacturing business. Customers (including employees and locals) voted with their wallets. They stopped buying high quality hand made leather gloves in favor of dirt cheap lower quality imports. Since demand was down for high quality and hand made gloves, the majority of skilled workers were eliminated. Floor space that once was used for leather processing and glove manufacturing equipment was cleared to add shelves, storage and order processing space for imported gloves.


Since the business started handling mostly imported gloves, most highly paid skilled employees and semi-skilled piece rate workers were replaced with unskilled warehouse workers, shelf stockers, order takers, pickers and shipping/receiving workers.

Like other glove shops, these unskilled workers demanded more money, more benefits and attempted to unionize during a time when mills, factories, tanneries, cottage industry and heavy industry was dying in the region. These unskilled workers wanted skilled wages, plus benefits and perks for performing unskilled tasks.


Around the same period of time, my brother worked in the warehouse of a furniture manufacturing business that made decent quality wood furniture. Even though the employees received a substantial employee discount, they voted with their wallets for dirt cheap alternatives. They bought cheap sawdust/glue/cardboard tables, cabinets, desks, entertainment centers, microwave carts and hutches form discount stores.


Many of the former manufacturing workers and local residents still gripe about the loss of manufacturing in the region, although they failed to support them when they still existed.

Long before WalMart stores moved into the region, it was discount stores like Ames, Jamesway and K-Mart that introduced locals to cheap sawdust furniture, futons and other cheap imported products. Ames had several lawsuits due to accidents from their cheap chair/table sets with light gauge tubular steel frames. Many people were injured when the chair frames collapsed. Obesity was becoming more common in the region at the time, so inexpensive furniture wasn't capable of supporting 300 plus pounders.
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Re: They're All Against Jobs

Unread postby MarkJ » Wed 23 Dec 2009, 10:05:46

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')'ve seen some sheathed with a brown crumbly board that you can poke your finger through. I guess it's strong enough to support vinyl siding.


Many of the older mobile homes have 2x3 studs sheathed with homosote, luan or very thin OSB which is usually swelled and rotted.

The interior doors are generally extremely thin hollow core luan doors with cardboard cores. Some have plastic door knobs as well. Cabinets and vanities are generally made of sawdust and glue with plastic handles, plastic shelf brackets, and sawdust/glue or plastic drawer guides.

The countertops and back splashes are sawdust/glue as well, only with low quality contact paper consistency coatings, usually swelled, bubbled, cracking and separating.

Many cabinets also have foam core panels and trim,plus most baseboard, moulding, trim pieces and decorative trim pieces are foam core as well.

Plumbing is generally PVC (not cpvc), plus many PVC drain lines are cheap foam core PVC. Many of the older units also have aluminum wiring.

Sinks, plumbing fixtures, tubs, showers and shutoff vales are usually plastic as well.
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Re: They're All Against Jobs

Unread postby mcgowanjm » Wed 23 Dec 2009, 10:29:10

You're describing the transfer of production to financial. People in Ag have grown up with this meme.

Major inflection points: 1968 and 1980. $this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Charles H Smith', 'T')he monetary-policy terminology of "quantitative easing" and "bail-out" is a masterstroke of propaganda, for it purposefully masks an unprecedented transfer of wealth from future taxpayers to the Financial Power Elite.
I want to be crystal-clear here: what Bernanke & Co. represent as "monetary policy" is in fact a massive transfer of wealth from future generations of U.S. taxpayers to Wall Street and the banking/mortgage industries.
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Re: They're All Against Jobs

Unread postby Ferretlover » Wed 23 Dec 2009, 13:28:07

Guideline for the Economics & Finance Forum:
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '[')color=blue] Economics & Finance[/color] Discussions about the economic and financial ramifications of hydrocarbon depletion.

Please post accordingly.
Thank you.
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Re: They're All Against Jobs

Unread postby Pretorian » Wed 23 Dec 2009, 13:48:45

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cloud9', 'C')learly the development of cognizant machines has significantly reduced the need for slaves. If the New World Order does not need the teeming billions of workers, solders and sycophants, why are we still here? Surely a few million in a carefully controlled under class can provide our masters with all the worldly delights they desire.


There is no ruler who would have preferred 1 million slaves to 2 million. You seem to miss the point. People who get on top do not have all worldly desires as a priority. They just want you to do what they say. They want to be in charge, important, controlling the biggest piece of pie. You dont have to be usefull, as long as forage is available. They will find something for you to do, so you wont feel bad about idle conversion of food&clothes into shit&rags. You can make small stones out of big ones, for example. Somebody else can roll them in a wheel-barrow around some field for a day or two, then another fella can glue them back together and send them back to you in the same wheel-barrow through the same route. US of A is one of the most colourful examples of this.
I repeat once more, as long as forage is available, jobs are irrelevant.
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Re: They're All Against Jobs

Unread postby Keith_McClary » Mon 11 Jan 2010, 00:17:56

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MarkJ', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')'ve seen some sheathed with a brown crumbly board that you can poke your finger through. I guess it's strong enough to support vinyl siding.


Many of the older mobile homes have 2x3 studs sheathed with homosote, luan or very thin OSB which is usually swelled and rotted.

The interior doors are generally extremely thin hollow core luan doors with cardboard cores. Some have plastic door knobs as well. Cabinets and vanities are generally made of sawdust and glue with plastic handles, plastic shelf brackets, and sawdust/glue or plastic drawer guides.

The countertops and back splashes are sawdust/glue as well,

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '[')url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/01/09/AR2010010902023.html]WAPO[/url]
The unintended ripples from the biomass subsidy program
The Biomass Crop Assistance provision gives millions in federal dollars to mills and lumber wholesalers.

It sounded like a good idea: Provide a little government money to convert wood shavings and plant waste into renewable energy.

But as laudable as that goal sounds, it could end up causing more economic damage than good -- driving up the price of raw timber, undermining an industry that has long used sawdust and wood shavings to make affordable cabinetry, and highlighting the many challenges involved in decreasing the nation's dependence on oil by using organic materials to create biofuels.

In a matter of months, the Biomass Crop Assistance Program -- a small provision tucked into the 2008 farm bill -- has mushroomed into a half-a-billion dollar subsidy that is funneling taxpayer dollars to sawmills and lumber wholesalers, encouraging them to sell their waste to be converted into high-tech biofuels. In doing so, it is shutting off the supply of cheap timber byproducts to the nation's composite wood manufacturers, who make panels for home entertainment centers and kitchen cabinets.

While it remains unclear whether Congress or the Obama administration will push to revamp the program, even some businesses that should benefit from the subsidy are beginning to question its value.

"It's not right. It's not serving any purpose," said Bob Jordan, president of Jordan Lumber & Supply in North Carolina, even while noting that he might be able to get twice as much money for his mill's sawdust and shavings under the program.


So is it better to use sawdust to make McCrappyHabitat or biofuel for hummers?
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