[PenultimateManStanding]

Oh, another thing. If you look at the Nazi movement from the other side, as it were, i.e., with a pre-movement historical perspective (it takes some imagination and historical knowledge) what begins to dawn is the realization that National Socialism was profoundly revolutionary and forward-looking. In other words, the Nazis were the ultimate progressives in the sense that they were sloughing off the old and embracing the future. No conservatives, those guys. They were ultra-modernists, taking all the trends of their era and turbo-charging them. Racism was very much in the air in those days and had not become anathema until after the war was over. Even then, it took decades to play out the changing attitudes.

[Daryl]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', 'O')h, another thing. If you look at the Nazi movement from the other side, as it were, i.e., with a pre-movement historical perspective (it takes some imagination and historical knowledge) what begins to dawn is the realization that National Socialism was profoundly revolutionary and forward-looking. In other words, the Nazis were the ultimate progressives in the sense that they were sloughing off the old and embracing the future. No conservatives, those guys. They were ultra-modernists, taking all the trends of their era and turbo-charging them. Racism was very much in the air in those days and had not become anathema until after the war was over. Even then, it took decades to play out the changing attitudes.

[PenultimateManStanding]

Yes, it is paradoxical, for the Nazis were brutal and inhumane. But consider the definition of progressive: "Promoting or favoring progress toward better conditions or new policies, ideas, or methods: a progressive politician; progressive business leadership." Then there is this from the 1924 Progressive Party Platform: "In supporting this program we are applying to the needs of today the fundamental principles of American democracy, opposing equally the dictatorship of plutocracy and the dictatorship of the proletariat." National Socialism adopted quite the similar aim. The emphasis is on modern change (for that era) and opposition to Communism and Capitalism both. There was "Socialism" in the party name for a reason. The insanity which proved to be at the core of Nazism has, I think, taken so many of the political ideas of modernity and turned them upside down. Political thought and categories were gutted, leaving wreckage and confusion which still has not healed.

[PenultimateManStanding]

There was an op-ed piece in The Wall Street Journal a little while back by a woman political commentator, the gist of which was that there is a feeling abroad in mainstream circles that everything is falling apart. Nothing makes any sense and The End Days are upon us. She told of a little dinner party where Teddy Kennedy was sipping his adult beverages and expounding to his young friends that he feels sorry for them, because the game is up and in 10 or 20 years the whole show will have collapsed. Political discourse in this age is moribund, decrepit and inane. The center cannot hold, it's "all irrelevant". I suggest that the climactic moment of the Modern Era was Nazism. Everything since has been a holding patten made possible by the exploitation of the waning fossil fuel legacy. "Progressive" and "Conservative" no longer mean anything, and people who think they do are deluded, in my opinion.

[holmes]

I agree with that PMS. Its nonsense this entire political spectrum. Its really only about profits and all about how to secure them by any means possible. Not much room for anything real and of substance.

[Daryl]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', 'T')here was an op-ed piece in The Wall Street Journal a little while back by a woman political commentator (I don't remember her name for sure, was it Peggy Noonan?) the gist of which was that there is a feeling abroad in mainstream circles that everything is falling apart. Nothing makes any sense and The End Days are upon us. She told of a little dinner party where Teddy Kennedy was sipping his adult beverages and expounding to his young friends that he feels sorry for them, because the game is up and in 10 or 20 years the whole show will have collapsed. Political discourse in this age is moribund, decrepit and inane. The center cannot hold, it's "all irrelevant". I suggest that the climactic moment of the Modern Era was Nazism. Everything since has been a holding patten made possible by the exploitation of the waning fossil fuel legacy. "Progressive" and "Conservative" no longer mean anything, and people who think they do are deluded, in my opinion.

[PenultimateManStanding]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Daryl', '
')Older people are always complaining about the present and looking nostagalically to the past. I remember once when my grandmother was in her 80's. I found one of my father's old Benny Goodman records and put it on. She went nuts, cursing about what a bad influence Benny Goodman was. She was born in 1897. Those folks looked at jazz the way I look at Marilyn Manson.

[smallpoxgirl]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Daryl', 'T')he brazeness of the rascism at that time is astounding.

[Daryl]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Daryl', '
')Older people are always complaining about the present and looking nostagalically to the past. I remember once when my grandmother was in her 80's. I found one of my father's old Benny Goodman records and put it on. She went nuts, cursing about what a bad influence Benny Goodman was. She was born in 1897. Those folks looked at jazz the way I look at Marilyn Manson.

[PenultimateManStanding]

Toynbee's thesis that waning Civilizations turn to technology when the Soul of the Civilization has died and all the great cultural achievements are in the past rings true to me. I find it interesting that perhaps our greatest cultural endeavor is the Classical Symphony and the concert hall where everyone dresses formally out of respect for the dignity and grandeur of the beautiful music. The music that is played was mostly all written 2 or 3 hundred years ago.

[Daryl]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', 'T')oynbee's thesis that waning Civilizations turn to technology when the Soul of the Civilization has died and all the great cultural achievements are in the past rings true to me. I find it interesting that perhaps our greatest cultural endeavor is the Classical Symphony and the concert hall where everyone dresses formally out of respect for the dignity and grandeur of the beautiful music. The music that is played was mostly all written 2 or 3 hundred years ago.

[PenultimateManStanding]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Daryl', '
')Yes, very similar to Spengler, who goes on and on about the "peak" of Western Culture ,Rembrandt/Newton/Shakespeare more or less. What makes Spengler fun to read is he tries to connect all the art forms in the West around a central idea - space. He calls Western culture "Faustian" (from Goethe of course) restless, wandering unfulfilled.

[Daryl]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Daryl', '
')Yes, very similar to Spengler, who goes on and on about the "peak" of Western Culture ,Rembrandt/Newton/Shakespeare more or less. What makes Spengler fun to read is he tries to connect all the art forms in the West around a central idea - space. He calls Western culture "Faustian" (from Goethe of course) restless, wandering unfulfilled.

[PenultimateManStanding]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Daryl', '
')survival kooks

[AmericanEmpire]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he energy spent here is astonishing. It makes me cognizant of the fact that we use vastly more energy annually than the sun shines down on us and that we get it from a one-time-only endowment of fossil fuel. You simply can't replace it with 'renewables'.