[orz]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'B')y your own admission, you said it might take a 1000 years to do it.

We don't have a 1000 years to replace our primary energy.

What energy source would we use?

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('orz', 'Y')ou're obsessed with burning things, when clearly there are other methods of gaining energy.

[SchroedingersCat]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('orz', 'Y')ou're obsessed with burning things, when clearly there are other methods of gaining energy.

[mididoctors]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SchroedingersCat', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('orz', 'Y')ou're obsessed with burning things, when clearly there are other methods of gaining energy.

[Omnitir]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Omnitir', 'F')ossil fuels simply amplified it all, allowing advanced technology, and human populations, to easily boom.

[orz]

Russia will definitely be able to militarize its borders, hoard its massive oil stores and focus on something like fusion with all the nuclear scientists they have there and come out as a superpower in 50 years if nothing else. China too, I think will be able to get through simply without the democratic processes slowing things down, plus the chinese are stilll somewhat used to hardship.

It's ridiculous to imagine collapse of the entire world barring nuclear war, and even that, I think is somewhat ridiculous.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Omnitir', ' ')We aren’t going to suddenly forget how to build and use technology.

[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('orz', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'B')y your own admission, you said it might take a 1000 years to do it.

We don't have a 1000 years to replace our primary energy.

What energy source would we use?

[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SchroedingersCat', ' ')We had fire. We developed technology mostly based on burning things. That doesn't mean there aren't other ways.

[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Omnitir', ' ')The reverse course does not lead to the same state that we were in at the beginning of fossil fuels use. Yes, the population boom that happened may suffer a degree of reversal (meaning some people will die without fossil fuels – this much I believe is certain), however, does all our advances in technology and knowledge also take a reverse course with fossil fuels decline? It seems ridiculous to think that it would. We aren’t going to suddenly forget how to build and use technology.

[orz]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'P')erhaps over 10000 years or 100,000. .

[Ludi]

I'm not sure where that came from, Orz. It seems your arguments are weaker than Monte's, since his are at least based on evidence from the past - yours seem based on fiction. It's too bad you got so frustrated you had to resort to rudeness.

[smallpoxgirl]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('orz', 'T')here is certainly enough energy from renewables to maintain that sort of heat. Perhaps the most advanced civilizations would be situated near geothermal sources to begin with, as those temps can be well in excess of 1300F.

[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('orz', ' ')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')hat energy source will you use to build and link them? Will any of these produce 1300 F? If not, you cannot make steel. Steel is required build technologies capable of withstanding the inertias and loads. Before steel, buildings were limited in height due to lack of strength. And even if they could, what energy source will you use to build the technology to allow them to do so?l

[orz]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')'m not sure where that came from, Orz. It seems your arguments are weaker than Monte's, since his are at least based on evidence from the past - yours seem based on fiction. It's too bad you got so frustrated you had to resort to rudeness.

[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('orz', ' ')Without fossil fuels, our tech would have slowly increased the allowable population, and the end result would be a society at our level, but sustainable and powered by renewable energies.

[smallpoxgirl]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('orz', 'I')t was a thought. Perhaps it would be lava that they could siphon off into little creeks far away from the actual volcano and work with there.

[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('orz', ' ')So we're doomed with or without fossil fuels?

[orz]

So what you're saying is that the level of technology we would have achieved is based solely on fuels we can readily burn. That had we not found fossil fuels, we would have considered wood the end-all- be-all source of energy and would have ended up just tearing through that, resulting in peak wood?

But if wood was so great, why would the Aztecs have wanted to mess around with sunlight to heat their homes. There's no point going down this road, it just leads to a whole series of hypotheticals, but assuming that wood would have been the resource du jour, there is at least one major difference between wood and oil.

It's renewable.

Of course there's the story of Easter Island. Could it have happened world wide? Possible, but utilising just wood, there is no way we could have even fathomed of creating the global civilization we have now. Shortages in some areas perhaps, but not all. No way to transport wood rapidly with just wood.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'N')o, with our tech (microbiology) we rapidily increased the population by decreasing the death rate. Fossil fuels just sustained it.

[smallpoxgirl]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('orz', 'B')ut if wood was so great, why would the Aztecs have wanted to mess around with sunlight to heat their homes.