[Falconoffury]

I am awestruck after reading this. link and link

Apparantly expensive drugs will be replacing basic vitamins and minerals. Is anyone else shocked by this? Could we one day see a black market of nutritional supplements?

[Elfstrom]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Falconoffury', 'I') am awestruck after reading this. link and link
Apparantly expensive drugs will be replacing basic vitamins and minerals. Is anyone else shocked by this? Could we one day see a black market of nutritional supplements?

[seldom_seen]

I'd say 1) S will HTF before this type of NWO BS is put in to place 2) if it is put in to place there will undoubtedly be a black market.

[MarkR]

Again, not quite.

Basic vitamins will continue to be regarded as vitamins, and could continue to be sold as they are now. The only difference is that dangerous doses of vitamins will be illegal (e.g. 'megadose' vitamin A, high-dose Vitamin B6), or available only on prescription (e.g. high dose folic acid can be used to treat some blood disorders, but if taken for the wrong blood disorder could cause crippling injury).

Non essential food supplements which have no recommended daily consumption will be reclassified as drugs, and require to go through the same safety and efficacy testing as do conventional medicines. Those which are potentially dangerous could conceivably be restricted to a prescription only status.

Currently, there are a large number of borderline substances which fall into the above category - ginko biloba, hypericum, etc. Some of these substances have very little evidence for any benefit, others are potentially dangerous, or potentially have significant interactions with other substances or prescription medication (e.g. St John's Wort has a potentially fatal interaction with anti-coagulant medications)

Although it varies from country to country, these borderline substances are generally classified as foods - there is therefore no need for the supplier to prove that they are safe to consume, nor any need for the supplier to prove that they actually work. Believe it or not, there is no need for the supplier even to ensure that their product actually contains the active ingredient!

The aims of the codex are to provide the public with confidence that what they are buying is a) effective and b) safe, and to harmonise laws between countries. At present, there is a confusing mixture of laws - with some substances banned in some countries but not in others. (e.g. melatonin supplements are banned in Europe, because they didn't pass safety tests, yet are readily available in the US).

[seldom_seen]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MarkR', 'T')he aims of the codex are to provide the public with confidence that what they are buying is a) effective and b) safe

[MarkR]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')t would be nice if they would do the same with prescription pharmaceuticals.

[seldom_seen]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MarkR', 'T')his is my experience in the UK. There are strict guidlines about what mediciations can be prescribed and in what circumstances, and these are evidence based.

[holmes]

G8 and corporations will and are putting a monopoly on everything.

[Falconoffury]

MarkR, you sound like an apologist. This is very bad for the people. They want to label everything but the kitchen sink a drug, making it all more expensive and more difficult to obtain. It's just another way that the government takes freedoms away from the people.

[MarkR]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'M')arkR, you sound like an apologist. This is very bad for the people.

[Falconoffury]

MarkR, in theory it may protect consumers, but in practice it is going to destroy practitioners of homeopathic medicine, and it will jack up prices big time for all supplements.

I think anyone who makes synthetically created vitamins are the criminals. They are useless. You need plant derived supplements for real nutrional value. I don't want to pay %1000 more for useless synthetic vitamins.

The Codex standards are an outrage. I have never been so angry over laws in my life. It's all about money. They want to take real nutrition away from people so they get more sick and buy more drugs.

There are cures for cancer from various plant and mineral sources, but the FTC and FDA are working hard to silence them. The entire health care industry would lose billions if these natural cures got out. It's all money and greed.

I say good riddance to this fucked up economic system where the corporations always win over the people. We need peak oil to wash away this toxic waste dump of a civilization we've created. I'm getting a gun, it will be time to make a revolution against the United States soon enough. Shoot all the money lenders!

[MarkR]

Homeopathy is a difficult subject. However, there is scant good quality evidence for the benefit of homeopathy, and what evidence there is, is not consistent or been readily replicated.

I don't want to get into a discussion on the finer points of why my interpretation of the evidence is such, because I don't think it is relevant to this discussion.

If we accept that homeopathic remedies have little benefit - then any claims that may be made in the marketing literature need to reflect that. I've seen a number of remedies make claims like 'relieves asthma symptoms', or 'eases breathing' when such claims are unfounded.

I had until recently always regarded homeopathic remedies as generally safe: however, having had a chance to think about this there are 2 potential problems.

1) Patients may self-diagnose and self-treat for a condition, without realising its true seriousness, and seeking advice - potentially delaying effective treatment. I, myself, have met at least one person in this situation.

2) Given the current lack of regulation of homeopathic products (see previous posts) there is no reason for a consumer to be sure that they are getting what they think they are getting.

There are certainly case reports, and reports from trading-standards bodies, of 'homeopathic' remedies containing significant quantities of pharmaceuticals (e.g. steroids, or even amphetamines). The reasoning is clear, such pharmaceuticals have potent medicinal effects, but they are rarely the correct treatment.

Again, this just reinforces my view of why the Codex is such a good thing. It will make manufacturers accountable for what is in their products, and avoid deception in the form of unproven claims, or false ingredient lists.

To address another point, there is little demonstrable difference between synthetic and natural vitamins. Indeed, many of the synthetic vitamins are more effective than the natural extracts. E.g. natural vitamin B12 is worthless for treating vitamin B12 deficiency, and synthetic forms of Vitamin D are far more effective at treating deficiency (especially in people with kidney disease) than natural forms.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')here are cures for cancer from various plant and mineral sources, but the FTC and FDA are working hard to silence them. The entire health care industry would lose billions if these natural cures got out.

[uNkNowN ElEmEnt]

There will always be stupid people out there which is why they have warnings on hot iron hair curlers not to use them internally and warnings that cruise control is not the same as autopilot.

If people are too lazy to do any research or pay for someone who is qualified to guide them then they deserve what they get. We are talking about vitamin supplements here. Most of them do not have enough active ingredients in them to hurt you unless you are stupendously stupid and try OD'ing to get what ever results you are hoping for.

If you are stupid enough to think some little pill will make you loose 3,500 calories or one pound of fat without changing your eating habits or increasing the amount of excercise you get, well then... you are just dumber than spit.

The problem I see is that people have been trained not to think. Now they need Big Brother to do everything for them further abrogating their own personal responsibility to the point that we may as well stick them in the matrix cause that is the only way we will ever be able to keep them safe. or maybe a big plastic bubble.

A lot of people are too stupid to even do whats best for them when it comes to food. as evidenced by the obesity epidemic. [sarcasm]are you going to regulate food intake too? afterall those are vitamins and they are obviously hurting themselves with food too. [/sarcasm]

[alpha480v]

Mark R SAYS:
Basic vitamins will continue to be regarded as vitamins, and could continue to be sold as they are now. The only difference is that dangerous doses of vitamins will be illegal (e.g. 'megadose' vitamin A, high-dose Vitamin B6), or available only on prescription (e.g. high dose folic acid can be used to treat some blood disorders, but if taken for the wrong blood disorder could cause crippling injury).

alpha480v says:
Agreed.Some vitamins taken in mega doses are dangerous.

MarkR says:
Non essential food supplements which have no recommended daily consumption will be reclassified as drugs, and require to go through the same safety and efficacy testing as do conventional medicines. Those which are potentially dangerous could conceivably be restricted to a prescription only status.

alpha480v says:
This is the dangerous part.Who will decide what is essential,and at what dose?I see everything not a vitamin or mineral being considered a drug,and then needing a perscription written for it.This will then give the supplement companies an excuse to jack up the prices to the consumer,like drug companies do with perscription drugs in America now.

MarkR says:
Currently, there are a large number of borderline substances which fall into the above category - ginko biloba, hypericum, etc. Some of these substances have very little evidence for any benefit, others are potentially dangerous, or potentially have significant interactions with other substances or prescription medication (e.g. St John's Wort has a potentially fatal interaction with anti-coagulant medications)

alpha480v says:
Ageed,but there are many non-essential supplements that people take that are benificial that might be required to be perscribed under the codex.
I take whey protein powder,because I weight lift.It has been proven that protein supplements add muscle mass.This supplement has no rda from the fda,so could be concidered non-essential under codex,and require me to get a perscription for it.My wife and I take chondrointen,msm,and glucosomine tablets for our joints.There is no rda for this supplement either.Same thing could happen.I would need a perscription.This is what is dangerous about this codex thing.Who decides what is essential,and what isn't.
The bottom line is,what is it going to cost me to get my supplements in the future,and will they be of the same quality that I have now under the FDA.

[MacG]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('uNkNowN ElEmEnt', ' ')A lot of people are too stupid to even do whats best for them when it comes to food. as evidenced by the obesity epidemic. [sarcasm]are you going to regulate food intake too? afterall those are vitamins and they are obviously hurting themselves with food too. [/sarcasm]

[MacG]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('uNkNowN ElEmEnt', ' ')A lot of people are too stupid to even do whats best for them when it comes to food. as evidenced by the obesity epidemic. [sarcasm]are you going to regulate food intake too? afterall those are vitamins and they are obviously hurting themselves with food too. [/sarcasm]

[Falconoffury]

Modern western medicine is the biggest mass scam in history. The healthcare industry would go bankrupt if they really wanted to cure people. They want you to empty your assets to buy their healthcare for some temporary relief, but not a real cure.

Coral calcium is a natural treatment and can cure for some forms of cancer.

http://www.advice-coral-calcium.com/index.html

The above site gives a great overview of the supplement. I'm not saying that it can cure all cases of cancer, but it certainly is shown to help the body fight the disease, and could certainly lead to the body curing itself in some cases.

Calcium deficiency is a big contributor to various degenerative diseases such as hypertension, cancer, diabetes, and alzheimers. Coral calcium is unique because it is ionized, and contains a large amount of magnesium and roughly 73 trace metals. Ionized calcium is much easier for the body to absorb. Cheap calcium supplements mostly just flush right through your urinary tract, not doing you any good. Here's another site with some scientific research links on the subject.

http://www.healthtreasures.com/calcium-reference.html

Sea vegetation is also highly rich in vitamins and minerals including ionized iodine. It's interesting to know that it contains compounds that attach to toxins in your body such as heavy metals, and remove them from your body. It has also been shown to improve vitality and weight loss. Look at this site.

http://www.shirleys-wellness-cafe.com/seaveg.htm

Now, back to synthetic vitamins. They simply don't contain the enzymes, hormones and other chemicals that you get from whole food supplements. They are simply of lowest possible grade, and not nearly as helpful as natural borne vitamins... if they help at all.

Now if Codex comes in and starts eliminating these sources of nutritional value or making them prescription, I am going to be very very angry. There may be some scams out there, but Codex is going to destroy almost everything.

[Specop_007]

Lemme come out of left field here for a bit.

Maybe if people would quit stuffing that overprocessed shit known as "Fast Food" in their mouths, quit ordering pizza to the door and actually cooked their own meals and ate healthy they wouldnt need that multi vitamin....

[shakespear1]

Yeh but then they wouldn't have a "service job" to pay for the pizza and chips as all the washing machine , lawn mower, stove manufacturing jobs have gone to Mexico.

Maybe a taco is better?

[gg3]

In an economy based on increasing growth, after all real needs are satisfied, the only way to continue growth is to find ways of extracting more and more money from each transaction. That's axiomatic, and that's ultimately driving ALL of the efforts by various industry groups to "manage" more and more of our lives.

Digital rights management, property management, customer relationship management, managed care, managed this and managed that: a flock of managers all waiting to swoop down on each and every one of us. A manager for each of our senses, and a manager for each of our orifices, all looking to get their parasitic little bite like so many mosquitos.

I'm well aware of the history of attempts to regulate nutritionals. Back in the 1970s there was an attempt at a law that would have required a prescription for any vitamin supplement at a dosage more than 1-1/2x the RDA. At the time, RDA for vitamin C was 60 milligrams, and a glass of orange juice (fresh squeezed) was 100, so squeezing your own orange juice would have been illegal. Yes, I kid you not. That proposal went down in flames but others kept coming up until finally Senator Orrin Hatch managed to get something into a piece of legislation that kept the government's regulatory paws off. For now.

So what do you consider a pharmacological effect...? FDA calls it anything that affects the function or performance of the human body or mind. Under that definition, perfume is a drug because it gets men attracted to women. Under that definition caffeine should be a prescription med, but of course caffeine gets a pass because if it didn't, the entire economy would grind to a halt overnight.

I can tell you that most of the Geek Universe takes nutritionals, myself included. Vitamin B-complex in large doses, vitamin C sometimes multiple grams per day, and a host of minerals and herbals and various minor cognitive enhancers, all for the purpose of keeping our brains in tip-top shape so we can produce and maintain the infrastructure our economy depends on.

And yes, the economy still depends on us, even after the dotcom crash. Take away the geeks' nutritionals, and America's communications networks will slowly unravel and become useless.

And we will fight, using whatever means are necessary, for the right to choose what we put in our mouths. We are citizens, not property of the state, our bodies are ours (or are us, if you want to put it that way); our mouths are ours, not someone else's to regulate.

Choosing what we put into our mouths is as fundamental a right as choosing the words that come out of our mouths.

There is one and only one legitimate role for regulation of nutritionals or any other food or food-based product: assuring purity and potency, and potential toxicity, are as labeled. Clear and truthful labeling. And then the government agencies can also provide information to the public about what's good and what's not. And then it's up to each and every citizen to choose for him or herself.