[emersonbiggins]

The Great Depression saw the United States increasing its domestic oil production with each passing year.
The next depression? Not so much.
We have the hope; sure, that's the easy part. Will we have the resources?

[mos6507]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('emersonbiggins', 'T')he Great Depression saw the United States increasing its domestic oil production with each passing year.

[emersonbiggins]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('emersonbiggins', 'T')he Great Depression saw the United States increasing its domestic oil production with each passing year.

[Tyler_JC]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('emersonbiggins', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('emersonbiggins', 'T')he Great Depression saw the United States increasing its domestic oil production with each passing year.

[Chesire]

Pipeline from the great lakes to the oglalla aquifer, los angeles and mexico city
Plus a canadian invasion. Why rape pillage and plunder your country when Canada is right next door.
Wetback roundup after all the infrastructure is built. 100 dollars an alien, alive or dead for fun and profit.

[foo]

America's fresh water pipeline infrastructure is failing
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he Environmental Protection Agency says utilities will need to invest more than $277 billion over the next two decades on repairs and improvements to drinking water systems. Water industry engineers put the figure drastically higher, at about $480 billion.
Water utilities, largely managed by city governments, have never faced improvements of this magnitude before. And customers will have to bear the majority of the cost through rate increases, according to the American Water Works Association, an industry group.
Engineers say this is a crucial era for the nation's water systems, especially in older cities like New York, where some pipes and tunnels were built in the 1800s and are now nearing the end of their life expectancies.
"Our generation hasn't experienced anything like this. We weren't around when the infrastructure was being built," said Greg Kail, spokesman for the water industry group. "We didn't pay for the pipes to be put in the ground, but we sure benefited from the improvements to public health that came from it."
He said the situation has not reached crisis stage, but without a serious investment, "it can become a crisis. Each year the problem is put on the back burner, the price tag is going to go up."

[roccman]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('foo', '[')b]America's fresh water pipeline infrastructure is failing
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he Environmental Protection Agency says utilities will need to invest more than $277 billion over the next two decades on repairs and improvements to drinking water systems. Water industry engineers put the figure drastically higher, at about $480 billion.
He said the situation has not reached crisis stage, but without a serious investment, "it can become a crisis. Each year the problem is put on the back burner, the price tag is going to go up."

[frankthetank]

Why must we worry about this too? The rivers and streams in this country flow pure and cold. They can easily be drank from in times of thirst. You can even wash your greasy hair and cleanse a dirty cornhole, if the need arises. I don't get the doomers on here. I'll glady chop ice in the winter to drop my bloomers down for a cleaning.

Good find Foo... See you next year.

[Tyler_JC]

480 billion over the course of 20 years. That's 24 billion dollars a year.
Assuming all 300 million Americans pay for it equally...that's $80 a year per person. WE'RE DOOMED!!!!!!
But seriously, that's pretty inexpensive for nearly unlimited access to some of the cleanest, cheapest water in the world.
If anything, higher water rates will get people to be a little more efficient with their water usage. Do we really need to water our lawns with drinking water?

[frankthetank]

Tyler-

I was driving down a street in town here about a month back, and noticed an old man washing his sidewalk. It wasn't even warm out.

[one_more_day]

My city is replacing a lot of its sewers (federal mandate). People here are not too happy about the 5 billion dollar price tag. However, the upgrades are being paid for with a flat fee charged to all residents. So it really doesn't encourage conservation.

[foo]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tyler_JC', '4')80 billion over the course of 20 years. That's 24 billion dollars a year.

[Denny]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('foo', '*')yawn* And who is going to pay for it, Tyler? The average bankrupt, unemployed American citizen? Or will the US government just print up more money out of thin air? And in a post peak oil world, where is all that oil going to come from to maintain and repair the deteriorating water system? And what about all the bridges, roads, etc. ?
Tyler... the forever blind optimist.

[Tyler_JC]

Are you suggesting that the world's largest economy can't figure out a way to scrounge around for 24 billion dollars a year to insure the survival of its citizens?
It represents less than .17% of national output. It's a rounding error.
The consequence of failure to provide water to the citizenry is Megadeath. You don't think our city planners know that?
Secondly, infrastructure spending has a high velocity. That money gets spent very quickly by the plumbers, engineers, hydrologists, contractors, pipe fitters, etc.
It's not as if that $24 billion is falling down a bottomless well or being burned in a bonfire. Consumers will pay slightly higher water rates, water service providers will accept slightly lower profits, and water infrastructure builders will make a little money...which will be spent back into the economy.
When we built the original water infrastructure, did all of that money disappear?
Lastly, you don't think that we can conserve water?
On hot days, I can waste water for entertainment. I can run the hose and push leaves around the driveway. Maybe attack an ant hill.
To run the hose for a full hour wastes 290 gallons of water and costs less than a dollar according to that chart. It's cheaper than a movie ticket.
We can reduce our water consumption enormously before we have to worry about running dry. And if we cut our water use, we reduce the strain on the system and thus the cost of maintaining it.
100 Ways To Save Water
All I'm saying is that although we may have many things to worry about, America's water infrastructure is not one of them.

[Magus]

{thread merged by emersonbiggins}
Just in time for the depression.
US water pipelines breaking
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'B')y COLLEEN LONG, Associated Press Writer Tue Apr 8
NEW YORK - Two hours north of New York City, a mile-long stream and a marsh the size of a football field have mysteriously formed along a country road. They are such a marvel that people come from miles around to drink the crystal-clear water, believing it is bubbling up from a hidden natural spring.
The truth is far less romantic: The water is coming from a cracked 70-year-old tunnel hundreds of feet below ground, scientists say.
The tunnel is leaking up to 36 million gallons a day as it carries drinking water from a reservoir to the big city. It is a powerful warning sign of a larger problem around the country: The infrastructure that delivers water to the nation's cities is badly aging and in need of repairs.
The Environmental Protection Agency says utilities will need to invest more than $277 billion over the next two decades on repairs and improvements to drinking water systems. Water industry engineers put the figure drastically higher, at about $480 billion.
Water utilities, largely managed by city governments, have never faced improvements of this magnitude before. And customers will have to bear the majority of the cost through rate increases, according to the American Water Works Association, an industry group.
Engineers say this is a crucial era for the nation's water systems, especially in older cities like New York, where some pipes and tunnels were built in the 1800s and are now nearing the end of their life expectancies.
"Our generation hasn't experienced anything like this. We weren't around when the infrastructure was being built," said Greg Kail, spokesman for the water industry group. "We didn't pay for the pipes to be put in the ground, but we sure benefited from the improvements to public health that came from it."
He said the situation has not reached crisis stage, but without a serious investment, "it can become a crisis. Each year the problem is put on the back burner, the price tag is going to go up."

[jdmartin]

Well since I work in this industry I guess I'll weigh in.
AWWA is our professional arm. This number is necessarily padded to increase the sense of urgency. Bottom line with water lines is that leaks and breaks can be fixed indefinitely - you dig up the leak and patch it. Yes, many lines need to be replaced, but it's not really a national calamity in my opinion. More worrisome than the state of line repair is the energy required to provide water to most parts of the US. Every place that's in the flatlands - which is most everywhere - massive amounts of energy are consumed pumping water into elevated tanks. It takes a strong pump to overcome a couple hundred feet of head (elevation) in a standpipe.
I'm not saying that the state of water lines is great - it isn't in most places, as the majority of water systems in this country were installed during the progressive period 1890-1920, so the lines are really old - but lines that were originally installed of worthwhile materials like cast iron can last hundreds of years. There are still water lines in use in Europe made of cast iron that are 500 years old.

[dorlomin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jdmartin', 'I')'m not saying that the state of water lines is great - it isn't in most places, as the majority of water systems in this country were installed during the progressive period 1890-1920, so the lines are really old - but lines that were originally installed of worthwhile materials like cast iron can last hundreds of years. There are still water lines in use in Europe made of cast iron that are 500 years old.

[Armageddon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('frankthetank', 'W')hy must we worry about this too? The rivers and streams in this country flow pure and cold. They can easily be drank from in times of thirst. You can even wash your greasy hair and cleanse a dirty cornhole, if the need arises. I don't get the doomers on here. I'll glady chop ice in the winter to drop my bloomers down for a cleaning.
Good find Foo... See you next year.

[frankthetank]

I had too. Sometimes the doom on this board is overwhelming and needs some humor injected. If you can't laugh once in a while, you might as well be dead anyways!
JD-
For the record, i can't stand cast iron pipes! Talk about trying to get a leak free connection. I ripped out everything here at home and put in copper. Do they weld the big city pipes or something? I would love to see the roll of Teflon tape they are using
The plumbing at Machu Picchu is over 500 yrs old.

[dinopello]

They just completed a pretty extensive water main maintenance progam in Arlington. It took over 5 years I think. Street by street they would bypass the water mains with above-ground flexible hose, then they have a TV snake they put in the pipes to inspect. Then they clean and spray some kind of new ceramic coating on the inside of the pipes. All done without trenches. It was pretty nifty.
They are doing something similar now with the sanitary sewers. The cameras they use for the inspection are pretty cool and can crawl down a pipe for a long way. The sewer relining is done differently than the water mains: Described here:
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'M')any compromised or failing sanitary (or storm) sewer mains can be 100% rehabilitated by a trenchless technology known as Cured-In-Place Pipe (CIPP). The process involves inserting a resin-impregnated felt liner similar to a sock into an existing sanitary sewer main through the manhole. Once the liner is in place, hot water is injected into the sock, and the heated water activates the resin material which is impregnated in the liner. As the resin is activated, it cures and forms into a solid plastic material which transforms the flexible liner into a rigid pipe which exhibits structural strength equivalent to a new sewer. Additionally, the new cured pipe provides a smooth and efficient flow channel which thoroughly renews the sewer without excavating the pipe. Once the pipe liner has cured, a robotic tool is inserted into the new pipe and is remotely directed through the pipe to cut out the lateral service connections, and the new pipe is placed back into service. The entire process typically requires 6-12 hours. The County’s Capital Improvement Program funds the relining program to replace approximately 1.5% of the sewer system annually, about 7 miles of pipe.