[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('yellowcanoe', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('aadbrd', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Newfie', '
')But also the Revolution (George Washington) was also an insurrection.

[Newfie]

It is pretty hard to lay the cause of the revolution on any single point. There were a combination of factors, as noted above. One could also make an argument that relations were made worse by; the time delay with GB, the Kings ham handed manner, GB newspapers mocking the colonies complaints, etc.

Or it could he argued that the revolution was due to a minority creating a situation that was inflamed by radical papers. Remember only about a third of colonist supported the revolution.

That the revolution succeeded is yet another matter. The final situation, Yorktown, occurred because British Admiral delayed the fleet in Statia to make an inventory of his war spoils. Because he delayed the French fleet were able get inside the British and isolate the army from food supplies forcing the surrender.

If course that is not the whole story, but a rarely told yet true aspect.

And we forget that the Massachusetts colonists were involved with military operations under British leadership. It was NE colonists who, with British support, took the large French Fortress of Lewisburg, NS. The British militarized the colonist for their own purposes, and then that military knowledge and confidence was used against them.

Single simple explanations seldom reflect the true nature. It is complicated.

[Pops]

So the Qanon fools were conned by murdoch and trump and deluded by some internet trolls and now they are revolutionary heroes because they tried to thwart democracy and the Constitution?

I don't think so. The comparison is is insulting. They should not be mentioned in the same sentence.

They represent the opposite of freedom and liberty and will go to prison for backing an authoritarian wannabe.

[aadbrd]

It's sad how every red-flag event tends to get washed away over time in sophistry and false-equivalent rationalizations in the interest of reaffirming party loyalty.

[Newfie]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', 'S')o the Qanon fools were conned by murdoch and trump and deluded by some internet trolls and now they are revolutionary heroes because they tried to thwart democracy and the Constitution?

I don't think so. The comparison is is insulting. They should not be mentioned in the same sentence.

They represent the opposite of freedom and liberty and will go to prison for backing an authoritarian wannabe.

[Newfie]

For anyone interested her is a link to the connection between Yorktown and Statia. It is a fascinating story of greed and anti-semitisim.

https://www.sdjewishworld.com/2016/12/1 ... -yorktown/

[aadbrd]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Newfie', '
')There you go putting things in peoples mouths again.
No one said any such thing.

[Pops]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('aadbrd', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Newfie', '
')There you go putting things in peoples mouths again.
No one said any such thing.

[Newfie]

That the topic took a turn you disapprove of is merely your opinion, not fact.

That it did take an interesting turn that folks participated in shows it is of interest to the readership.

While you are free to voice your disapproval you are not free to shut down any topic you disagree with.

[JuanP]

Most, if not all, countries' histories are not what we believe them to be. Most countries build a narrative about how they became what they are that is full of lies, falsehoods, inaccuracies, and distortions, with little snippets of truth that make them believable. This applies to the USA as much, if not more, as most other countries.

When I was growing up I was privileged to learn Spanish, English, French, Italian, and Portuguese. I was also lucky to have access to several amazing private libraries that contained books, maps, and other documents, both originals and copies, with many different versions of Uruguay's history written by many different authors from many different countries in those five languages. I read Portuguese, Brazilian, Spanish, Italian, Argentinian, British, American, French, and Uruguayan versions of Uruguay's history.

In the end, after several years of doing my own research, I reached the conclusion that it is extremely likely that the official version of Uruguay's history that I was taught in school was nothing more than a pretty story with a few tidbits of reality here and there. I was hugely disappointed that I had been lied to my whole life by my family, friends, teachers, the government, the Catholic Church, and society in general.

I believe that the US history you were all told all your lives is mostly not the truth. I believe that this applies to most of world history everywhere. I like reading archeology and anthropology more than history these days, though I do still read history books, mostly for fun and insight into the human psyche.

[jedrider]

JuanP, as the victors get to write or re-write history, this story of the US Capitol Insurrection can be turned into the great Patriotic Uprising that Newfie seems to long for The only tidbit of truth preserved will be that they both happened at the current U.S. Capitol (maybe the South will reclaim the government and move it once again to Richmond, Virginia as the Confederates once did, so even that is not immutable).

However, the truth of the matter is that the insurrectionists were just deluded fools that did attempt an insurrection with no real chance of success.

[Pops]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Newfie', 'W')hile you are free to voice your disapproval you are not free to shut down any topic you disagree with

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Newfie', '.').. we forget that the Massachusetts colonists were involved with military operations under British leadership. It was NE colonists who, with British support, took the large French Fortress of Lewisburg, NS. The British militarized the colonist for their own purposes, and then that military knowledge and confidence was used against them.

[jedrider]

I don't have NYTimes access on this https://www.rawstory.com/from-blm-capitol-riots-police/

Seems like an interesting study of who some of the insurrectionist were and what they believed in. Of course, we are trying to figure out how they justify their 'patriotism' when what they appear to be having problems with is 'democracy' and the mechanisms of 'democracy' and, even, law enforcment and the meanings of law and what type of protests are constitutional and what types are not. As far as I'm concerned, they can let them ALL go, except for the few with firearms and weapons, as long as they arrest all of the enablers (which will never happen in the U.S. of Money).

[Newfie]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', ' ')Patriotic Uprising that Newfie seems to long for

[Newfie]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Newfie', 'W')hile you are free to voice your disapproval you are not free to shut down any topic you disagree with

[jedrider]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Newfie', 'W')hile any one person may lean to this side or that of a subject we all recognize that effecting violence against the government in order to change control is an insurrection, whether we agree with it or not.

[Subjectivist]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jedrider', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Newfie', 'W')hile any one person may lean to this side or that of a subject we all recognize that effecting violence against the government in order to change control is an insurrection, whether we agree with it or not.

[dissident]

Only in America would the "violence" of some protestors against brazen election fraud (over 20 million extra votes out of nothing) be called an insurrection. By this "logic" any protest against the government is "insurrection". Really, people need to go and buy a clue. An insurrection is an organized military action, e.g. coup. The Capitol Hill protestors had zero chance of overturning the system. But instead of focusing on what the protest was about, we'll have Orwellian drivel about how it was the gravest threat to American "democracy".

BTW, that story about the cop being killed by protestors was a total fabrication.

[jedrider]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dissident', 'O')nly in America would the "violence" of some protestors against brazen election fraud (over 20 million extra votes out of nothing) be called an insurrection. By this "logic" any protest against the government is "insurrection". Really, people need to go and buy a clue. An insurrection is an organized military action, e.g. coup. The Capitol Hill protestors had zero chance of overturning the system. But instead of focusing on what the protest was about, we'll have Orwellian drivel about how it was the gravest threat to American "democracy".

BTW, that story about the cop being killed by protestors was a total fabrication.