[Newfie]

Pstarr, I think we are fighting a loosing battle here. You can't fix stupid.

That is probably a bit cruel ( if warranted) but this is just another form of denialism. "We don't need to mend our ways, technology will see us through!"

One would like to think that otherwise intelligent and thoughtful folks would be able to see through the BS. But obviously it is not so. The elixir of hope is too sweet.

I expect I'll be roundly pummeled for these sentiments, so be it.

This idea is nothing but a SCAM!

[americandream]

Like I said when I first joined this site, the means will be found to prolong this system until it literally is down to the last crumb and pstarr is a good example of the false hope we are being lulled into. At the end of the day, this culture has inculcated an addiction to excess and it will be near impossible to wean ourselves off it. Nevertheless, energising exponential growth will not remedy the problems associated with exponential growth. It may mitigate PO and to that extent, may have rendered some concerns discussed on this site less problematic. However the underlying issue of sustained resourcing of exponential growth does not go away simply becuase we can energise it sustainably.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Newfie', 'P')starr, I think we are fighting a loosing battle here. You can't fix stupid.

That is probably a bit cruel ( if warranted) but this is just another form of denialism. "We don't need to mend our ways, technology will see us through!"

One would like to think that otherwise intelligent and thoughtful folks would be able to see through the BS. But obviously it is not so. The elixir of hope is too sweet.

I expect I'll be roundly pummeled for these sentiments

[Newfie]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('americandream', 'S')olar roads from the perspective of the ordinary bloke will probably buy us time (if feasible)....perhaps stretch capitalism out another 4 decades or so beyond mid century. So from that point of view, I guess some can draw comfort. But when all is said and done, earth's capitalists will try and use this time to move elsewhere as another 7 decades of JIT consumerism's rubbish pump and dump will pretty much see this planet rendered uninhabitable.

[Newfie]

OK, rant off. Here is bit different response.

When we are living on the boat, 6 days out of 14, it is pretty easy to monitor our energy usage. It breaks down like this.

Heat, 180 gallons of oil for 18 months, or two winters. We could fix that by sailing South.
Transport, even though it's a sailboat there are many times you really want to use the motor. Being patient and taking our time can ease that a good bit. Living at the dock it is nil.
Refrigeration, our solar panels (380 watts) and wind vane can just about keep up with this.
Cooking, we use kerosene, no simple replacement for that. A couple of gallons a month if we ere full time.
Lights, LEDs, almost nothing.

To be honest this accounting leaves out a few things. We take showers in the marina facilities. We also use the toilet there, if we used our inboard bathroom then we would have to do a pump out. We use some shore power in the winter when the solar and wind can't keep up with the oil heater fan requirements.

But that's about it. It's not a lot but even that is not sustainable, it's not carbon neutral. Cooking is the real tough one, it's either kero or propane.

Maintaining our city life, even though we live in small spaces in center city, is by comparison energy costly. Bigger place to heat, need a car to get around, public transport either doesn't go there or takes forever, and frequently is more expensive. The Wife has her office in our apartment, but I work in an office so there is that additional space and energy. And my work requires me to travel, fly mostly, which is energy intensive.

But, by comparison, we have a very small energy footprint (don't have TV or AC) compared to most Americans.

So if the average American reduced their power usage to our levels, reduced their CONSUMPTION to our levels, even using our city profile, then there would be huge savings in energy use.

That is where the future lies and where we will eventually go. If not by planning then eventually by necessity.

I find it fascinating that folks can't understand that which is so obvious.

[Rod_Cloutier]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')I get chased all around the country for this job or that. You mean to tell me there is no one in Miami or Chicago who can do what I do?

[Newfie]

Apparently many.

I'm an engineer, one of my tasks is to estimate design/build projects. I have to attend meetings, many stupid and useless.

I fly less than many folks in our office. While they have different specializations they have the same kind of travel demands.

[Graeme]

Clearing the Freakin' Air

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')here's a lot of false information about Solar Roadways flying around the internet these days and some of it is just SO freakin' wrong that we've created this page to set the record straight!

Hi Folks,

We've gotten a lot of attention in recent weeks due to our Indiegogo campaign. The worldwide support has been nothing short of wonderful and we thank everyone everywhere.

Most of the attention has been very positive, but as the campaign became more and more successful (and popular), the naysayers began coming out in force trying to grab some attention. They use non-scientific "facts", misquote and mislead, and sometimes flat out lie. They write unprofessional articles and create deceiving videos to lead people astray. We were told by the Indiegogo staff that this happens to every successful campaign, regardless of the invention.

Haters are going to hate. Nothing we can do about that. One unscrupulous individual even took our viral Solar Freakin' Roadways video (by volunteer Michael Naphan) without our permission, and has used it to create another video, in which he has embedded deliberately misleading information. He is even making money by placing advertising on it to make a profit! (We could do the same, but we chose not to do so). And there are other journalists who have written articles with really irresponsibly misleading information.

False Claim: We picked a really stupid place to put solar panels

False Claim: Solar Roadways is going to cost $60 trillion dollars

False Claim: Asphalt roads are cheap and maintainable

False Claim: we can't afford to heat roads

alse Claim: Glass is softer than asphalt

False Claim: The shadow a single bird can take out an entire solar array - let alone a car!

False Claim: You can't see LEDs in direct sunlight

False Claim: We're attempting to use recycled colored glass to make new clear glass

We wonder about people who reflexively dismiss our concept without trying to understand it, or go on public forums to attack us. It's helps us to remember that there have always been people against change. For some it's just too scary. They want to just keep things the same. Perhaps they are the descendants of those who argued that the earth was flat, that we didn't need cars because horses worked just fine, told the Wright Brothers they were out of their minds, or insisted that we'd never reach the moon. Or perhaps they are the voices of larger entities who are now feeling threatened by the paradigm shift that is Solar Roadways.

[Keith_McClary]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', 'T')here is a bunch of brilliance congregating around this project:
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'j')acques hughes
August 8, 2010 at 6:19 pm
I think they’re maybe missing a trick here. If not only solar energy, but kinetic energy from the traffic could be collected, it’d definitely be a winner. Possibly even self-regulating temperature-wise for when it snows? Imagine a road powered by traffic that can also power the traffic on it…

[Quinny]

Sure someone could calculate how much solar road would be needed per km driven. Anyone know?

[Graeme]

Are solar streets the solution to range anxiety?

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'E')fficiency – that is what it’s all about.

Electric vehicles are the way to go – most pundits agree on that. The area where they differ is how the electric energy, which turns the wheels, is getting to the motor(s).

Today, we already have several options: hybrid-electric, in a variety of combinations of engine and motor; battery-electric vehicles (BEV) with a limited range, and range-extended vehicles, where an engine–generator-combination supplies the electricity.

Efficiency became important during the last few decades, as the world learned how emissions and dwindling oil resources would affect life on our planet. Not only did vehicle manufacturers consider actual fuel consumption, they included production of vehicles and supply of components into the overall picture.

The phrase ‘Well to Wheel’ was coined, to include all systems and components that drive a vehicle down the road, literally.

Automotive industry went a step further: ‘End of Life’, the recycling of everything contained in a vehicle was included in the overall process; designing not only for the life of the car, but also for the ecological footprint after its useful existence.

[Newfie]

Thought you might enjoy this site


http://physics.ucsd.edu/do-the-math/201 ... wered-car/

[Newfie]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', '&')quot;a Solar Roadway in a parking lot" sends my me into a deep dark funk. I am sad I am alive in a world where such dumbness shares a place in my mind. The rest of my mind friends want to kill themselves.

[Graeme]

Hard Road Ahead for Solar Freakin’ Roadways

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he idea is to put unused roadway to good use (generating electricity) while also providing an electronic means for lane shifts, driver messages and other utilities. Bonus: solar roadways obviate the need for an electric grid by including a “Cable Corridor” right in the side of the roadway that eliminates the need for power lines running alongside it. And if outfitted with sensors as well the solar highway could transmit real time traffic data or other information of interest. The novel idea has been around for a few years now, bursting back into prominence this summer thanks to a new crowdfunding campaign to support further research and development that garnered $2.2 million before closing on June 20.



There are, however, a few challenges to overcome. What happens to the solar roads at night or on a cloudy day, when the PV is not generating electricity to power homes or cities? The Brusaws’ answer is to draw power from the grid, presumably from flexible generators, such as natural gas-burning combined cycle turbines or hydropower projects with the room to store water for a dark night (though Brusaw told me he expects wind turbines to fill this role back in 2009. He did not respond to repeated requests for an interview this time around.) As presently designed, the LEDs and heating elements are disconnected from the photovoltaics, meaning these elements require electricity from the grid 24/7. The heaters alone require more power than the available PV in the hexagon can supply.

Then there’s the materials challenge posed by the novel use of glass. This glass must be tempered, self-cleaning, and capable of transmitting light to the PV below under trying conditions, among other characteristics—a type of glass that does not yet exist. And that’s just the glass. There’s the additional challenges posed by putting together photovoltaics, LEDs and other components, not unlike a smartphone but one that will be run over by trucks.

Finally, there’s the problem that these 50 United States barely maintain asphalt roads, crumbling highways and unafe overpasses and bridges as it is. U.S. roads are essentially run to failure (i.e. as poorly maintained as possible) so how will any city, state or federal government pay any amount more to put in a solar road rather than paving with asphalt? It’s not just that the panel is more expensive than pavement, it’s the additional expense of maintenance, replacing the inevitable defects and generally tending a technological jumble subjected to the brutal pounding of daily traffic and weather, among other stresses.

[Keith_McClary]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Graeme', 'a') smartphone but one that will be run over by trucks.

[lpetrich]

I agree with preferring canopies. My first thought is that there is a serious problem with keeping a "solar road" clean, because a dirty one's dirt would obstruct sunlight. It's much easier to clean a canopy, and a typical height should be well above most of the dirt. I also think that canopies would be cheaper than solar-road tiles, because they can be much more flimsy.

[Tanada]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('lpetrich', 'I') agree with preferring canopies. My first thought is that there is a serious problem with keeping a "solar road" clean, because a dirty one's dirt would obstruct sunlight. It's much easier to clean a canopy, and a typical height should be well above most of the dirt. I also think that canopies would be cheaper than solar-road tiles, because they can be much more flimsy.

[lpetrich]

Solar-road tiles also have the problem of surviving heavy vehicles traveling over them, like 18-wheeler semi-trailer trucks. I think that this problem is much more serious than what some of the tiles' advocates seem to think. Equivalent Single Axle Load | Pavement Interactive gives an approximate rule of thumb:

(road-damage amount) ~ (weight per axle)4

From that page:
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'H')eavy trucks and buses are responsible for a majority of pavement damage. Considering that a typical automobile weighs between 2,000 and 7,000 lbs (curb weight), even a fully loaded large passenger van will only generate about 0.003 ESALs while a fully loaded tractor-semi trailer can generate up to about 3 ESALs (depending upon pavement type, structure and terminal serviceability).

[Subjectivist]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('lpetrich', 'S')olar-road tiles also have the problem of surviving heavy vehicles traveling over them, like 18-wheeler semi-trailer trucks. I think that this problem is much more serious than what some of the tiles' advocates seem to think. Equivalent Single Axle Load | Pavement Interactive gives an approximate rule of thumb:

(road-damage amount) ~ (weight per axle)4

From that page:
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'H')eavy trucks and buses are responsible for a majority of pavement damage. Considering that a typical automobile weighs between 2,000 and 7,000 lbs (curb weight), even a fully loaded large passenger van will only generate about 0.003 ESALs while a fully loaded tractor-semi trailer can generate up to about 3 ESALs (depending upon pavement type, structure and terminal serviceability).