$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('JV153', 'I') wouldn't say that large automobile corporations deny that future oil production may be a concern. e.g,
Honda http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDSUpOAKNz0
PeakOil is You
The propaganda campaign against peaking fossil fuel prod
Re: The propaganda campaign against peaking fossil fuel prod
by ralfy » Wed 25 Dec 2013, 23:57:24
Also, check out
"Toyota's Jim Lentz Predicts Peak Oil by 2020"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVEZE2vM2oM
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Re: The propaganda campaign against peaking fossil fuel prod
by Strummer » Thu 26 Dec 2013, 06:07:38
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('John_A', 'T')hat is because PO didn't do was it was supposed to...which was turn down the spigot, causing the kind of shortages and rationing we saw in the 70's when we had a real energy crisis.
The only reason why those things didn't happen today is that the economy (both US and global) is a completely different beast today than it was in the 70s. Remember that the USA (almost) went bankrupt in 1971. The Nixon Shock and the following change of the global economy into the free-floating and debt-fueled new paradigm took at least a decade to implement and re-adjust. The shortages and rationing were not because there was no oil available, they happened because oil was too expensive within the context of the real economies of the 70s, who could not leverage such massive debts as they can do today. If today's economies were not able to amass the massive debts that they do, you would see the same shortages and rationing today. We're simply able to kick the can much further down the road, a luxury that the early 70s economies did not have.
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Re: The propaganda campaign against peaking fossil fuel prod
by JV153 » Thu 26 Dec 2013, 10:14:02
Strummer,
More to the point it's Europe that get's the shortages now as it's around 6.70 usd a gallon with most of that being taxes. I can't say that I like the european system after being here for a while - it's as obvious as it can be that unemployment is easily double what the official figures are in northern europe, although probably what is actually reported in Spain and Portugal. Germany has made some good progress in moving to renewables as has Denmark but ICE engines don't use electricity and the current battery manufacturing process is too dependent on raw materials from very limited sources and specific geographical regions.
The 70's gas shortages in the US were a combination of a sudden oil crunch from OPEC and the decline in US production combined, the number of automobiles, and price gouging by unscrupulous gas station owners. Btw, the nominal price of saudi light oil was 2 $ USD in 1971. Peak oil use per capita was a long time ago....
More to the point it's Europe that get's the shortages now as it's around 6.70 usd a gallon with most of that being taxes. I can't say that I like the european system after being here for a while - it's as obvious as it can be that unemployment is easily double what the official figures are in northern europe, although probably what is actually reported in Spain and Portugal. Germany has made some good progress in moving to renewables as has Denmark but ICE engines don't use electricity and the current battery manufacturing process is too dependent on raw materials from very limited sources and specific geographical regions.
The 70's gas shortages in the US were a combination of a sudden oil crunch from OPEC and the decline in US production combined, the number of automobiles, and price gouging by unscrupulous gas station owners. Btw, the nominal price of saudi light oil was 2 $ USD in 1971. Peak oil use per capita was a long time ago....
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Re: The propaganda campaign against peaking fossil fuel prod
by John_A » Thu 26 Dec 2013, 12:33:25
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ROCKMAN', '&')quot;There is money to be made, convincing people to be afraid of a thing, and then betting on them reacting appropriately." I suppose everyone's experiences are different: in 38 years not once have I felt the need to convince anyone to be afraid of depleting resources in order to make a living.
Of course YOU wouldn't. You retrieve and sell a product, the price of which is what it is. If someone is pimping the price one way or another it doesn't matter, when you sell a tank of oil, you sell it for what the market will pay.
I was referring to Simmons. The more people he could scare, the more stock, IPO's and money he would make on the churn. But his business isn't yours Rock, he can make money on whatever fear he was able to sell to investment houses and whatnot.
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Re: The propaganda campaign against peaking fossil fuel prod
by John_A » Thu 26 Dec 2013, 12:39:06
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Strummer', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('John_A', 'T')hat is because PO didn't do was it was supposed to...which was turn down the spigot, causing the kind of shortages and rationing we saw in the 70's when we had a real energy crisis.
The only reason why those things didn't happen today is that the economy (both US and global) is a completely different beast today than it was in the 70s.
But of course the economy is different, faced with an energy crisis and stagflation, things CHANGED. Just like they are today. Change is the one constant in all of this, I've never figured out why folks get so cranky about it.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Strummer', '
') Remember that the USA (almost) went bankrupt in 1971.
Yes. Much different than today.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Strummer', '
') The shortages and rationing were not because there was no oil available, they happened because oil was too expensive within the context of the real economies of the 70s, who could not leverage such massive debts as they can do today.
And then things...they changed. Sort of like today...except most folks ignore the change in order to hype this or that, be it the peak fear meme or renewables meme or whatever, or to hype ONLY the change they are interested in.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Strummer', '
') If today's economies were not able to amass the massive debts that they do, you would see the same shortages and rationing today. We're simply able to kick the can much further down the road, a luxury that the early 70s economies did not have.
