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PeakOil is You

PeakOil is You

THE Precious Metals Thread (merged)

Discussions about the economic and financial ramifications of PEAK OIL

Re: Oil, Gold, Copper will all fall this week.

Postby carbuster » Wed 17 May 2006, 03:22:55

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Marklar', '
')There's just so much cockiness on the bullish side. So I'm taking somewhat of a superstitious point of view. Murphys law would kick in if I were to buy oil futures, I'm sure.


You can still buy out-of-the-money call options, preferably with distant delivery dates. They're cheap and relatively safe.
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Re: Oil, Gold, Copper will all fall this week.

Postby Chaparral » Wed 17 May 2006, 04:33:39

June gold is at 20 dollars to 716 in London and silver rung the 14 dollar bell again. Those shorts are gonna get their balls squeezed out their eyesockets! What kind of rise will their short-covering cause?

The USD index is gimping back down to the 83700s as well. I wonder if well see 750 by Friday?

I wonder if I'm gonna stay up 72 hours straight trading again? Maybe I'll take profits so I can sleep :razz:
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Re: Oil, Gold, Copper will all fall this week.

Postby seahorse2 » Wed 17 May 2006, 09:14:20

When the price of gold crashed on Monday, it came on the heels of the EU announcement they would offer incentives to resolve the nuclear issue. Today, the price of gold is up and I notice the Iranians are rejecting any EU incentives. Seems related to me.
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Re: Oil, Gold, Copper will all fall this week.

Postby Chaparral » Wed 17 May 2006, 12:06:13

The metals are sure taking a beating now. Silver clipped the 12900 mark for a few seconds. The USD is soaring to 84600.

I guess people expect the rate hikes to continue based on the CPI data. I'm taking this opportunity to exit my pump gas and crude shorts.
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Re: Oil, Gold, Copper will all fall this week.

Postby firestarter » Wed 17 May 2006, 12:11:01

Looks as if a lot of money is seeking refuge in the bond market. There's a broad, across the board sell off taking place right now. The Dow is broaching -200 already, only two hours plus into the trading session. Perhaps Ike Iossif, on thre negative end of developments, was prescient yesterday:


$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '.').. The markets sold off hard last week prompting calls for the end of Western civilization as we know it! Well, we do not think it will happen this week; we can still enjoy driving our gas guzzling Hummers while drinking our overpriced lattes. Why? Because the markets are deeply oversold and most indicators are--at most--a day away from the bottom of their range. The deeply oversold condition combined with Options Expiration this week ought to give the market the opportunity to bounce, and we expect it to do so by Wednesday. If it doesn't, that would mean we are facing a major change in trend, and in that case, the Western civilization may not end, but those who remain bullish, they'd better run for the hills!
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Re: Oil, Gold, Copper will all fall this week.

Postby Marklar » Wed 17 May 2006, 15:44:57

strange indeed. Everything sinking.

Glad I bought my $70 Strike Put options for Apple last week. It's now at $65 and looks to be oversold and reverse any day now. So I'm taking my profit.

My first "big" win and I'm pretty excited about it :) I've only been trading for about 3 months and from what I'm seeing the Nasdaq 100 has broke some serious support on the downside. I hope it reverses soon so I can get in on the next upswing.

I find it weird that stocks are falling so much along with gold, sliver, and oil. Sell in May and RUN away, as fast as you can.
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Re: Oil, Gold, Copper will all fall this week.

Postby kabu » Wed 17 May 2006, 20:06:01

Since last Thursday, I starting buying into the immediacy of a minor correction, but I never figured there'd be as large a sell off in metal stocks as there was, with such a small dip from the last run up in metals. After today, I lost 2/3 of my Sentry fund's profits. I didn't think it'd drop so significantly without a larger correction in bullion prices, because I figured miners' profit-margins were huge even at January's levels, so I didn't bother locking in my profits... :cry:

I'm new to this. Why does this seem so disproportionate to me? Was I just underestimating everyone’s paranoia in the stock market? Are the bearish big shots just that much more influential in the stock market than they are with the commodity traders?
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Re: Oil, Gold, Copper will all fall this week.

Postby Chaparral » Wed 17 May 2006, 20:45:15

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('kabu', 'S')ince last Thursday, I starting buying into the immediacy of a minor correction, but I never figured there'd be as large a sell off in metal stocks as there was, with such a small dip from the last run up in metals. After today, I lost 2/3 of my Sentry fund's profits. I didn't think it'd drop so significantly without a larger correction in bullion prices, because I figured miners' profit-margins were huge even at January's levels, so I didn't bother locking in my profits... :cry:

I'm new to this. Why does this seem so disproportionate to me? Was I just underestimating everyone’s paranoia in the stock market? Are the bearish big shots just that much more influential in the stock market than they are with the commodity traders?


The predictions are all over the map. I'm guessing it's a sell on rumor buy back on news thing. The higher CPI scared everyone into thinking that more rate hikes are a certainty. Now that they've had a day to digest things, I am waiting to see what tomorrow will bring. If the metals go up tonight, I am definitely setting limit orders behind the advancing price to protect gains; shoulda done that last night actually.

I am still holding onto my gold and silver longs for now. It's continuing education in finance and investment and speculation in the University of Hard Knocks.
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Re: Oil, Gold, Copper will all fall this week.

Postby RdSnt » Wed 17 May 2006, 21:37:24

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('kabu', 'S')ince last Thursday, I starting buying into the immediacy of a minor correction, but I never figured there'd be as large a sell off in metal stocks as there was, with such a small dip from the last run up in metals. After today, I lost 2/3 of my Sentry fund's profits. I didn't think it'd drop so significantly without a larger correction in bullion prices, because I figured miners' profit-margins were huge even at January's levels, so I didn't bother locking in my profits... :cry:

I'm new to this. Why does this seem so disproportionate to me? Was I just underestimating everyone’s paranoia in the stock market? Are the bearish big shots just that much more influential in the stock market than they are with the commodity traders?


This is a different market from the past. Much more volatile and dangerous.
You have to keep firmly in mind, that everyone in the market is an amateur this time around. Noone in authority has any type of significant Crash experience.
1929 was a long-time ago, and the crash that is currently building is a global monster no one has seen before.
Experts can see it coming, they just don't know what to do, so the market is going to be very unpredictable.
Gold and silver will still be the safe haven choice in the end, it just may be a bumpy road getting there.

I've been looking forward to this correction. It's more emotional than based on fundamentals and so harder to anticipate.
There are a few issues I've been hoping would drop, but was starting to worry that they would go down as far as I wanted.
I'm buying at the moment and will continue to do so likely for the remainder of the week.
I don't do futures, for the most part I'm buy and hold. On a rare occasion I'll take profit on a given company, usually only to add a bit more to another purchase.
I buy silver, the inventory is much lower, the upside has a better percentage and the silver miners are usually more stable, since most of them are not pure plays. Silver is usually a secondary resource for another commodity, like zinc which is another of my favourites.
Gravity is not a force, it is a boundary layer.
Everything is coincident.
Love: the state of suspended anticipation.
To get any appreciable distance from the Earth in
a sensible amount of time, you must lie.
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Re: Oil, Gold, Copper will all fall this week.

Postby drew » Wed 17 May 2006, 22:31:27

Good luck with your trading Kabu.

It is a lot of fun....

Keep your cool...

too..

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Re: Oil, Gold, Copper will all fall this week.

Postby mmasters » Wed 17 May 2006, 23:27:31

Too much inflation is happening, it's killing businesses and deflation is kicking in. As a result people are running for the bond market. It's only temporary, soon it will be back to the bull market for gold. These deflationary shocks will happen though when oil goes up too fast like it has been lately.
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Re: Oil, Gold, Copper will all fall this week.

Postby kabu » Wed 17 May 2006, 23:43:15

Thanks for the words, all. I was feeling like a sucker for still holding the bag, but yeah, I guess everyone gets their turn when things are this emotionally charged. I'm going to buy a bunch of bullion or something after my next paycheck! Holding it will make me feel better.

To tell you the truth, I've spent the last hour writing about the ongoing tragedy in the middle-east, and that's pretty much whipped me back into shape, and I've slapped myself on the wrist fer being so as ungrateful for my fortune.
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Re: Oil, Gold, Copper will all fall this week.

Postby warmh2o » Thu 18 May 2006, 15:26:42

Silver's currently around 12.57, I think we might be near the bottom.
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Re: Oil, Gold, Copper will all fall this week.

Postby truecougarblue » Thu 18 May 2006, 17:37:20

I got stopped out on the way back down today in GLD around 680. It's looking to me like we might still be heading back to 650 or lower on this correction.

I'm bullish long term, and I think an investor today will be in good shape with a long into the future. I think a long trader today is facing some sizeable short term risk.

I'm holding the mining stocks CDE HL because at these prices the P/E is looking pretty good and I think they'll come around OK.
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Re: Oil, Gold, Copper will all fall this week.

Postby airstrip1 » Thu 18 May 2006, 17:44:01

Copper Trade Losses Spark Fear of Defaults

The risk of defaults was hanging over the London Metal Exchange last night after a clutch of clients failed to meet margin calls on losing copper trades, leaving brokers struggling frantically to match their books.

The liquidity crunch follows another day of wild gyrations at the exchange, where copper, aluminium, zinc and lead all tumbled on bad US inflation data after failing to conquer new highs.

Copper fell 3.3pc to $8,080 a tonne in late trading. "The hedge books of the banks are seriously underwater on copper, but apart from that there are now brokers in trouble because clients can't meet the margin payments," said a market source.


Copper Trade Losses

As I suspected this weeks market volatility has left some traders positions underwater. I suppose the big question is how serious are these defaults ?. The London Metal Exchange is making a lot of soothing noises but I expect it is brown trouser time for some people.
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Re: Oil, Gold, Copper will all fall this week.

Postby Chaparral » Thu 18 May 2006, 20:01:43

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('truecougarblue', 'I') got stopped out on the way back down today in GLD around 680. It's looking to me like we might still be heading back to 650 or lower on this correction.

I'm bullish long term, and I think an investor today will be in good shape with a long into the future. I think a long trader today is facing some sizeable short term risk.

I'm holding the mining stocks CDE HL because at these prices the P/E is looking pretty good and I think they'll come around OK.



Agreed. I'm still long (and mad as hell at myself) after pissing away the profit from Tuesday's rise by not setting stop limits behind the June gold at 715 and july silver at 13850. Sounding like a broken record when I say "lets see what Asia does tonight" :lol:
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Re: Oil, Gold, Copper will all fall this week.

Postby Dukat_Reloaded » Fri 19 May 2006, 09:07:17

Looks like I am correct, Gold and copper both moving south very quickly.

Image

Image

Image

What I am concerned about is the Oil price, that hasn't moved down, oil at that price should have been bullish for gold. I suppose the oil market is too big for the FED to manipulate and short sell like the other commodities.
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Re: Oil, Gold, Copper will all fall this week.

Postby firestarter » Fri 19 May 2006, 09:33:22

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Dukat_Reloaded', 'W')hat I am concerned about is the Oil price, that hasn't moved down, oil at that price should have been bullish for gold. I suppose the oil market is too big for the FED to manipulate and short sell like the other commodities.



Give it time, the day is young.

Looks as if there's a lot of $ going into the bond market. The yield was down to 5.04% on the 10yr Treasury note in the overnight market. There's a strong likelyhood of Fed manipulation here.
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Re: Oil, Gold, Copper will all fall this week.

Postby deconstructionist » Fri 19 May 2006, 11:37:01

after last month's boom in prices, i set a fall back to $650 in my mind as a good benchmark to buy a little bit more... with the news about S. Africa's output falling, it seems safe that prices will continue to rise over the medium-term... what do you guys think? are they going down more before they start to go up again? impossible to know for sure of course...
UNLESS
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Re: Oil, Gold, Copper will all fall this week.

Postby Dukat_Reloaded » Fri 19 May 2006, 12:09:07

I wouldn't read too much "PRO GOLD" news. You probably found that artical at kitco.com, all they do is print and link to articals that are pro gold.

I don't think gold will testing $700 for quite some time now, I expect gold to keep testing lower levels. This bull run from $420 to $720 in less than a year has to turn bearish at some time. Today is was the first major bearish sign in along time for gold, don't except it to be over in one day, the bearishness has been brewing in the uprun for such along time and will take some time to turn bullish again, this could be the start of a bearish trend, remember bullruns have bearish runs on the way up, and this is the time we have all been waiting, that magical correction to get in. I think many people will have

I will say to all now, perhaps if you have 10k, start buying gold stocks, spend $1,000 a day, just keep buying when the price gets lower and lower, if it jumps up before then say in 3 days, well you have $3,000 worth of gold stocks that will most likely double, then to the moon, i think way better choice than bullion right now, FSN says that the gold stocks are trading negative to their net assets meaning they are a bargain compared to the gold price, and on monday many of them will be trading at half the price they were trading at last week.

I expect most small cap gold stocks will be trading at 1/2 of their value on monday.

Deconstuctionist, that artical is abit bogus. The reason mine output is down is because of mine closures, they weren't profitable because the rand moves very heavily with gold, SA hasn't seen much price appreation of gold in their local currency.
Last edited by Dukat_Reloaded on Fri 19 May 2006, 12:48:50, edited 1 time in total.
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