[TreebeardsUncle]

Hello, giddy, he who at times has a hard time understanding me.

And, as I was just told not only are they, the Near Easterns,
prone to violence, but they also "have no regard for human life."
No, I would not say that about the blacks and jews, though the blacks are prone to criminality, are emotive and physical, musical, and inclined to the concrete not the abstract whereas the jews are
historically one of the most cohesive people and have a long tradition of valuing intellectual knowledge. Actually, I would not recommend actually hating people as it tends to perpetuate destructive conflicts, but, I think it is only realistic to recognize that people have inborn characteristics of personality as well as physiognamy, just like breeds of dogs.

Lates.
G

[TreebeardsUncle]

Ok.
Actually, I agree with both of those suppositions, the first which you said was unsupportable and the second that you said was supportable. I believe that there will be some mixing of races, but in 10,000 years, there still well may be some races as certain pnes are better adapted to certain climates than others and the preponderances of certain numbers are likely to maintain some racial groupings for many thousands of years. Of course, this is a long way from the PO storm. However, the coming limitations in available energy sources will reduce mobility overall.

Lates.
g

[pea-jay]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Gideon', '
')
In 10,000 years there will be no races left, but just a spectrum.

[seven]

Gideon wrote:

"It's like feeding the starving Africans when I was a kid. I'd see images on TV of the starving woman, and right there in her arm was a starving kid. And even then I was savvy enough to ask, "if she's starving, why is she having a baby?" and "if we send them food, won't they just have more babies?"

There are a few answers to this beyond what a 'little kid' might think of while watching tv - one, many millions of Africans are conservative Catholics, and follow the strict Catholic tenets of no birth control, large families, etc. Add to that (and much more importantly) many millions of African women are 'culturally inferior' to the males, and must submit to sex with their husband whenever he wishes...so being 'in charge' of one's reproductive capacity is almost impossible for many millions of African girls and women.

This same cultural norm of females having to submit to males is a major driving facter in the high spread of HIV/AIDS in that country and other sexist societies - many women in Africa (and other countries) have become infected because their husbands have extramarital sex, get HIV, then pass it on to their unsuspecting wives. African wives who refuse sex are doubly-penalized - they are shamed by the church, and routinely beaten by their husbands.
The heavily sexist social structure and common use of violence against females guarantees the sexual subservience of females even if they're not religious. Rape is extremely common, as well.

The lower birthrate in wealthy countries has more to do with availability of dependable birth control than anything else. Second would be the education of women - the more educated the woman, the fewer children she usually has...and education and birth control availability often go hand in hand. Combine education with available birth control, and you achieve a relatively stable, non-explosive population. Wealthy countries that don't use much birth control due to religious tenets have very high birth rates, of course.

Taken as a whole, the African overpopulation problem has a LOT more to do with extreme social inequality between the sexes than it does with women just thoughtlessly producing babies - add religious conservatism about birth control, family size and servility of females, and there is a recipe for population disaster.

So the next time you see a starving African woman holding a starving baby, you might think about the fact that she probably had no choice about having the sex that produced it.

[MonteQuest]

Let's try to not get off on tangents here. The Peakoil Perfect Storm is a much broader issue that really comes down to economics. What will we spend the money we have on? Which of these issues will get our prime attention?

[ALBY]

The only thing wrong with what treebeard wrote was that he incorrectly assigns attributes to RACE and not CULTURE.

Arabs and Islamics have a CULTURE that worships death, Jihad, mysogeny, inequality and submission. All values that do not square with western values of individual liberty, pluralism and democracy.

People often confuse race and culture. Racists tend to ascribe negative traits to race, which is just boolsheet. However, apologists within our own culture are way too quick to gloss over the really bad elements of cultures that we are in conflict with. No matter how poorly we represent our own culture, no matter how poorly our leaders bastardize our values, there is no excusing cultural practices like keeping women in chattel slavery, assigning non believers 'dhimmi' status and spreading your religion by the sword.

Rather than excusing these behaviors in the name of multicultualism, we should be enforcing our values upon our own leaders.

[ALBY]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('seven', 'W')ealthy countries that don't use much birth control due to religious tenets have very high birth rates, of course.

[ALBY]

Just to tie all my comments back to the peak oil perfect storm: (again, i'm channeling Steyn here) We are running out of babies faster than we are running out of oil.

I know it's horribly un-PC to say so, but western culture, warts and all, is far superior to anything else on the planet today. Imagine an oil starved world with throngs of poor, uneducated Islamics pouring out of the inhospitable middle east and sub-saharan africa and into Europe and Asia, demanding sharia law and imposing their will on an OLD, dying culture. This is what Steyn sees in our future and the demographic data supports his assertions.

[ALBY]

I think you should read his book and see for yourself Gideon.

Steyn's unapologetic about "our" cultural superiority and that turns a lot of multiculturalists off.

One of my friends, who actually turned me on to Steyn's book, would say the ultimate test of a civilization is whether its members think its worth continuing, and the vote is in for Europe and Russia. They've chosen demographic suicide.

He points out that we apparently lack the will to stand together and face the threat of the Islamists. At the root of all our issues, we lack the common belief that our culture is superior to others and that is what's behind the demographic collapse of the west.

Wheras i'm focused on resource collapse, he is just as focused on demographic collapse.

[JPL]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ALBY', 'I') think you should read his book and see for yourself Gideon.

Steyn's unapologetic about "our" cultural superiority and that turns a lot of multiculturalists off.

One of my friends, who actually turned me on to Steyn's book, would say the ultimate test of a civilization is whether its members think its worth continuing, and the vote is in for Europe and Russia. They've chosen demographic suicide.

He points out that we apparently lack the will to stand together and face the threat of the Islamists. At the root of all our issues, we lack the common belief that our culture is superior to others and that is what's behind the demographic collapse of the west.

Wheras i'm focused on resource collapse, he is just as focused on demographic collapse.

[ALBY]

To be fair, JPL, they are Steyn's idea's, not mine and although he obviously influences my thinking, i don't quite buy into these ideas completely. part of me thinks petrocollapse will kill more of the throngs in the marginal areas of the world first. they live on the battlefied after all. So we have NO IDEA how demography and petrocollapse will interact.

Your points about Europe and it's propensity for right wing nationalism and being crowded are duly noted. I'm glad you are here to inform the debate.

[ALBY]

your loss my friend.

i read chomsky and stan goff. made my eyes bleed, but there is something to be learned from everyone.

[MonteQuest]

Folks, there are numerous threads elsewhere to address the latest posts to this thread.

Let's try to get back on topic.

[MonteQuest]

Seems Tom Whipple is talking about the "storm" as well.

The Peak Oil Crisis: Connecting the Dots

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he key question is whether the economic troubles come before or after oil, for one reason or another, becomes very expensive and scarce. Many observers think there are serious economic troubles just ahead stemming from negative savings in the US, the housing bubble, collapse of Detroit, balance of payments, value of the dollar, or any number of other factors.

[TreebeardsUncle]

Ok.

Check out this article too:
http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle ... emID=12055

IN THE SPIRIT OF NERO

The gist of the article is the great cognitive dissonance that exists between what is stated in reports on global warming etc and the other content of the publications in which they are included.

Also check out

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/h ... 57DFE2F%7D

Sub-prime gloom picks up after HSBC warning
No. 3 bank sparks fears for lenders; charge will be 20% higher than expected

Sub-prime lenders are having problems. This does not bode well for that bs pipe-dream line about there being a soft landing in real estate (more like a "soft" landing of hitting a sheet wrapped around an anvil after a 50 foot drop).

[galacticsurfer]

Five Factors for Five More Years

http://www.safehaven.com/showarticle.cfm?id=6850

this article analyzes the economic momentum of savings deficit, yen carry trade, derivatives trading, Chinese currency reserves and financial investments from now to 2011 and says itis impossible to keep oing likethe last 5 years.

[gg3]

The economic equation is simple: the unstoppable force (economic growth) hits the immovable object (a finite planet) with a loud crash.

It's axiomatic that we have to cease & reverse both population growth and economic growth, or nature will do both for us whether we like it or not. The only question is how the misery is distributed. As for me, I'm in favor of forcibly spaying & neutering humans en masse rather than forcibly shortening their lifespans. On the other hand, since I value liberty, I suppose it's better to let them choose one or the other.

Someone around here started a thread on communism. He's a self-proclaimed Marxist, I'm highly skeptical, but I'm interested to see how that discussion is going. Who knows?, one does sometimes find answers in places thought to be highly unlikely.

BTW, Gideon, you don't "f--- becuase you enjoy it" when you've had your clitoris cut off without anaesthetics and your vagina sewn up so that only a small opening remains in order to pass the menses each month. How'bout you try shoving a large cucumber up your arse, thrusting it in & out until you bleed and then some, and telling us how many times a week you want to do that for thrills? If you're not willing to do the proverbial experiment on yourself, then shut the f--- up about how women in Africa feel, because you really don't know doodley-squat, and it makes you look like the part of your anatomy that deserves the cucumber.

I must say, that picture of a hydrogen bomb explosion is almost comforting compared with what we're headed for.

[MD]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gg3', 'T')he economic equation is simple: the unstoppable force (economic growth) hits the immovable object (a finite planet) with a loud crash.

It's axiomatic that we have to cease & reverse both population growth and economic growth, or nature will do both for us whether we like it or not. The only question is how the misery is distributed. As for me, I'm in favor of forcibly spaying & neutering humans en masse rather than forcibly shortening their lifespans. On the other hand, since I value liberty, I suppose it's better to let them choose one or the other.

Someone around here started a thread on communism. He's a self-proclaimed Marxist, I'm highly skeptical, but I'm interested to see how that discussion is going. Who knows?, one does sometimes find answers in places thought to be highly unlikely.

BTW, Gideon, you don't "f--- becuase you enjoy it" when you've had your clitoris cut off without anaesthetics and your vagina sewn up so that only a small opening remains in order to pass the menses each month. How'bout you try shoving a large cucumber up your arse, thrusting it in & out until you bleed and then some, and telling us how many times a week you want to do that for thrills? If you're not willing to do the proverbial experiment on yourself, then shut the f--- up about how women in Africa feel, because you really don't know doodley-squat, and it makes you look like the part of your anatomy that deserves the cucumber.

I must say, that picture of a hydrogen bomb explosion is almost comforting compared with what we're headed for.

[TonyPrep]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gg3', 'I')'m in favor of forcibly spaying & neutering humans en masse rather than forcibly shortening their lifespans.

[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TonyPrep', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gg3', 'I')'m in favor of forcibly spaying & neutering humans en masse rather than forcibly shortening their lifespans.