[sventvkg]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jack', 'U')mm? Why is it bad? Exactly what provisions are bad? What, precisely, should be changed?

[Mower]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jack', 'U')mm? Why is it bad? Exactly what provisions are bad? What, precisely, should be changed?

[thebear]

they are taking freedoms away with this patriot act! lol well you liberals are taking freedoms away for years in your regulation, laws, politically correct mindset etc. I dare say I am one of the 99.99 % that won't be affected, and the patriot act is for a good purpose, security!

[holmes]

svent, I have a feeling its just the beginning. America will be a military state once peak sets in and the economy crashes. Its only begun. if you look at history there seems to be pattern before SHTF.
with Overpopulation no one is going to be secure.

I have to laugh at these so called "conservatives" that pop up. They are more liberal than the liberal. At least i know the liberal is liberal.


so...

"I just can understand the "conservative" or the liberal mindset."

I dont see CONSERVative anywhere. I see a whole lot of lying, greed, faith based non-reality and big spending.
These "conservatives" crack me up more now than the freakin liberals.
Its the age of fantasy island. The republican party is a carcass. Mybe Oregon and Washington will keep some strong republican blood. Hopefully.

[holmes]

And the republicans were once the environmental party. They were the ones who got environmental regs going becuase they saw the cannibalistic tendencies of the capitalistic greedy system. Ted Roosevelt?

[Tamera]

I have to add my "vote" to the police state thing. Sad thing is, at least when I try to talk about this issue with anyone, I generally get the same response as peak oil....People look at me as if I've lost my mind. I've also been called unamerican for not supporting the "Patriot" Act and this new piece of crap legislation. I'm soooo sick of the word "terrorism". It has become like the Salem Witch trials in my opinion. They are using to get what they want, to get cooperation through fear. Personally, and this is just me, I'm not saying my way is right, but I would rather be free and rely on myself for my security. A lady at my work had said to me..." you just have to be willing to give up some freedoms in order to be safe." I was floored. I guess I just wasn't raised to believe like that.

Anyway, just my two cents.

Tamera

[thebear]

there are no conservatives anymore! we have swung so far to the left! Liberals will create a huge demand for group therapy after Bush wins.
liberalism is a mental disease. I define liberalism in terms of what it means in the US in the last 25 years, which is higher taxes,higher regulation,more social welfare, and race and class warfare.lies and deceit. liberalism views more government as a good thing, instead of freedom of choice especially in the way of your finances. this is what I wrote before the election! and I noticed your dig on Christianity. that was one of the reasons you guys lost the election. you just don't get it up. This election was a mandate on the lies, dirty tricks, false accusations, character assassinations, class warfare, and race baiting used by John Kerry, Michael Moore and Terry McAuliffe,and other of their ilk,,, Americans have spoken! and said a resounding, NO, !!!!!

[thebear]

99.99% of us won't be affected by this patriot act! But I realize as your concern about a slippery slope argument! Like it or not, drug dealers and crime organizations are susceptible already to things like the patriot act! I would be willing to give up my freedoms for one day until they can get the whole thing straightened out! What irks me is the lack of racial profiling in the airports! I am about as WASP as they come. But I get searched every time! If you consider the freedoms we've lost under our move towards liberalism, more regulation, more laws, and the political correctness not allowing you free speech thinking out-of-the-box etc. it far outweighs the patriot act

[thebear]

Roosevelt who was a Democrat brought us into World War II! Political parties change, sure I would be proud to be called a liberal back in John Kennedy's day. Today's liberals are not the same, weve swang so far left in this country it is sick! So your analogy of a party 100 years ago doesn't hold water!

[Taskforce_Unity]

How many of you did actually read the Patriot act 1? Do you have any clue what you are talking about?

[Tamera]

thebear,

I agree wholeheartedly about all of the freedoms that we have been loosing for a long time now. It didn't just start with the "Patriot"Act. It's just the most in your face one. Thanks to 911 they can do that now and people eat it up. So much for self responsibility and accountability. Problem is, most of these rules and regs hurt decent people because let's face it...the criminals don't care if they are breaking laws, that's why they are criminals. More laws, more rules will not change that. In my opinion, all it will do is limit more law abiding citizens, until even those people end up as a criminal for some silly stupid law that has no place in a free society. I personally don't believe there should be laws to "protect" people from their own stupidity and lack of research, examination and forethought. We can't and shouldn't have to protect people from themselves.

Tamera

[Tamera]

How many of our Politicians read it before passing it?

That's the SAD part.

[holmes]

Bear,
I do love the bears. especially the Indian sloth bear. coolest beast.
are you here for discussing science, geology, computer science, ecology, peak oil, fishing, subsistence living? Or are you here to discuss politics? Politics are going to be dead not too far off.
And i really only vote for non mainstream runners.
If they had a science and common sense party i would be in it.
I would be glad to discuss building a self sustaining independent home that uses the thermal mass of the earth and solar and wind and has an indoor green house. Which by the way will be more valuable than millons of dollars in 10 years. Off Grid.
Environmentla regulations are important. I could care less about who roosevelt was. And it is important becuase you implied that all regulations are bad.
Dont shove your pushy religion on me. Thanks.
And I can take care of myself no need to tax me to have some strangers protect me. If i happen to get "terrorized" Ill die. O well. Ill go down in a flurry of magazine fire at least.
cant save everyone. Keep building those conservative beurocracies on top of all the rest and they will eventually crush us all to death.
Well now your going to say america wont fall becuase god is manifest in it? Or that resources never deplete? please dont say that bear.

It seems this board is mostly people who are working on becoming more and more self sufficient for the upcoming revert back to simpler times. Isnt that a good thing? Less dependence on corporations and government and politics.
more responsible. more grass roots. I personnally am working on becoming 95% selff sufficient. In 2 years I might be there. Less main stream.
Building knowledge bases of skills like shoe making, blacksmithing, gardening, sewing, tool and die, etcc..
Very Important things.
And yes I have spent my whole life in the sciences and religion has no place in ecology or geology. If you want to beleive god created the processes thats fine but do not trash the years and years of observational science for faith based science. which is scary in itself.
Bush is a liberal and he has tossed science. But I also undersatnd hes just a puppet for the big boys and there really is no way out either dem or repub.
America has spoken and its liberal to the core and most dont have clue in whats in store for them and the world.
I hope they do soon. Becuase its really up to them to take care of themselves.
But I am not going to argue, just going to keep forging ahead.
best of luck to you and your family.

http://www.concordcoalition.org/

[Mower]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Taskforce_Unity', 'H')ow many of you did actually read the Patriot act 1? Do you have any clue what you are talking about?

[TyeDye]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('thebear', 't')here are no conservatives anymore! we have swung so far to the left! Liberals will create a huge demand for group therapy after Bush wins.
liberalism is a mental disease. I define liberalism in terms of what it means in the US in the last 25 years, which is higher taxes,higher regulation,more social welfare, and race and class warfare.lies and deceit. liberalism views more government as a good thing, instead of freedom of choice especially in the way of your finances. this is what I wrote before the election! and I noticed your dig on Christianity. that was one of the reasons you guys lost the election. you just don't get it up. This election was a mandate on the lies, dirty tricks, false accusations, character assassinations, class warfare, and race baiting used by John Kerry, Michael Moore and Terry McAuliffe,and other of their ilk,,, Americans have spoken! and said a resounding, NO, !!!!!

[spear]

The above scenario sounds very realistic to me.Judging from the pace that events are moving and the dates that events to come are being scheduled by the governents of the world,I would agree 100 percent with the above post.Unless they have an alternative plan,to speed things up, which there always is if too many of the sheep get a whiff of the wolf.Probably some science fiction mumbo jumbo scenario. Theres still time to get your,our acts together ,or we are going to have a computer chip up our butts faster than you can say yankee doodle dandee.WAKE UP PEOPLE.The shit has hit the fan.

[sventvkg]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('thebear', '9')9.99% of us won't be affected by this patriot act! But I realize as your concern about a slippery slope argument! Like it or not, drug dealers and crime organizations are susceptible already to things like the patriot act! I would be willing to give up my freedoms for one day until they can get the whole thing straightened out! What irks me is the lack of racial profiling in the airports! I am about as WASP as they come. But I get searched every time! If you consider the freedoms we've lost under our move towards liberalism, more regulation, more laws, and the political correctness not allowing you free speech thinking out-of-the-box etc. it far outweighs the patriot act

[sventvkg]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Taskforce_Unity', 'H')ow many of you did actually read the Patriot act 1? Do you have any clue what you are talking about?

[sventvkg]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('holmes', 'B')ear,
I do love the bears. especially the Indian sloth bear. coolest beast.
are you here for discussing science, geology, computer science, ecology, peak oil, fishing, subsistence living? Or are you here to discuss politics? Politics are going to be dead not too far off.
And i really only vote for non mainstream runners.
If they had a science and common sense party i would be in it.
I would be glad to discuss building a self sustaining independent home that uses the thermal mass of the earth and solar and wind and has an indoor green house. Which by the way will be more valuable than millons of dollars in 10 years. Off Grid.
Environmentla regulations are important. I could care less about who roosevelt was. And it is important becuase you implied that all regulations are bad.
Dont shove your pushy religion on me. Thanks.
And I can take care of myself no need to tax me to have some strangers protect me. If i happen to get "terrorized" Ill die. O well. Ill go down in a flurry of magazine fire at least.
cant save everyone. Keep building those conservative beurocracies on top of all the rest and they will eventually crush us all to death.
Well now your going to say america wont fall becuase god is manifest in it? Or that resources never deplete? please dont say that bear.

It seems this board is mostly people who are working on becoming more and more self sufficient for the upcoming revert back to simpler times. Isnt that a good thing? Less dependence on corporations and government and politics.
more responsible. more grass roots. I personnally am working on becoming 95% selff sufficient. In 2 years I might be there. Less main stream.
Building knowledge bases of skills like shoe making, blacksmithing, gardening, sewing, tool and die, etcc..
Very Important things.
And yes I have spent my whole life in the sciences and religion has no place in ecology or geology. If you want to beleive god created the processes thats fine but do not trash the years and years of observational science for faith based science. which is scary in itself.
Bush is a liberal and he has tossed science. But I also undersatnd hes just a puppet for the big boys and there really is no way out either dem or repub.
America has spoken and its liberal to the core and most dont have clue in whats in store for them and the world.
I hope they do soon. Becuase its really up to them to take care of themselves.
But I am not going to argue, just going to keep forging ahead.
best of luck to you and your family.

http://www.concordcoalition.org/

[Jack]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('sventvkg', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jack', 'U')mm? Why is it bad? Exactly what provisions are bad? What, precisely, should be changed?