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THE Mastercard Thread (merged)

What's on your mind?
General interest discussions, not necessarily related to depletion.

Re: Citibank yanks MasterCards

Unread postby VZR1800 » Sun 25 Oct 2009, 00:46:02

My wife and I have no credit cards.
Wake me when you are there.
Who f--kin needs them?
More trouble than they are worth!
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Re: Citibank yanks MasterCards

Unread postby mos6507 » Sun 25 Oct 2009, 01:20:11

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('VZR1800', 'M')y wife and I have no credit cards.
Wake me when you are there.
Who f--kin needs them?
More trouble than they are worth!


I take it you never order something online?
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Re: Citibank yanks MasterCards

Unread postby blukatzen » Sun 25 Oct 2009, 09:32:48

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('VZR1800', 'M')y wife and I have no credit cards.
Wake me when you are there.
Who f--kin needs them?
More trouble than they are worth!


I take it you never order something online?


You can use a Visa/Mastercard DEBIT card for this. I am setting up an account for online purchasing only, (as we do this quite a bit in our household) with the bulk of our savings/checking in other accounts, so as not to endanger those *if* id gets stolen, or something goes awry. I too, am dropping the credit cards.

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Re: Citibank yanks MasterCards

Unread postby JJ » Sun 25 Oct 2009, 09:58:20

you can also buy a pre-loaded VISA card as I understand it, good for buying antibiotics from Russia (not that I would)
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Re: Citibank yanks MasterCards

Unread postby mcgowanjm » Sun 25 Oct 2009, 10:17:55

This story is being buried. A quick Google shows it's being
ignored.

An aside: Chase tried to give us Negative Bonus Points. We had to go thru Marketing to correct it. The Question:

Why would Marketing be ABLE to give Negative Bonus Points.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')hose are pretty much the only options: Idiots or full of shit. (You decide).
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Re: Citibank yanks MasterCards

Unread postby Tyler_JC » Sun 25 Oct 2009, 20:16:59

And what exactly is a "negative bonus point".

That seems like a contradiction in terms...
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Re: Citibank yanks MasterCards

Unread postby VZR1800 » Sun 25 Oct 2009, 21:56:17

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('blukatzen', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('VZR1800', 'M')y wife and I have no credit cards.
Wake me when you are there.
Who f--kin needs them?
More trouble than they are worth!


I take it you never order something online?


You can use a Visa/Mastercard DEBIT card for this. I am setting up an account for online purchasing only, (as we do this quite a bit in our household) with the bulk of our savings/checking in other accounts, so as not to endanger those *if* id gets stolen, or something goes awry. I too, am dropping the credit cards.

Blu


Exactly. When I do order anything online, and it aint often, I use my debit card. Same as paying cash, no interest charges coming at you later. Mosi ot my money is in a savings account. I transfer just enough to the checking to pay bills, or order things.

The other day I was perusing my account information online, as I do every other day or so. I found a purchase made from Turino Italy, off a website that is entirely in Italian, (www.bakeca.it). Now I cannot speak or read Italian, and anyway, I have never been to Italy, let alone Turino Italy. Called the bank, cancelled my card, put a freeze on my account for a week, got a new card coming in seven days or so.

That is the reason to keep minimum money in the cards account.
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Re: Citibank yanks MasterCards

Unread postby the48thronin » Sun 25 Oct 2009, 22:10:05

You can buy annonimous visa debit cards using CASH at some big box stores and LOL truck stops.

Nothing tied to your bank account at all... for ordering on line.
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Re: Citibank yanks MasterCards

Unread postby JJ » Mon 26 Oct 2009, 07:48:49

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('VZR1800', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('blukatzen', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('VZR1800', 'M')y wife and I have no credit cards.
Wake me when you are there.
Who f--kin needs them?
More trouble than they are worth!


I take it you never order something online?


You can use a Visa/Mastercard DEBIT card for this. I am setting up an account for online purchasing only, (as we do this quite a bit in our household) with the bulk of our savings/checking in other accounts, so as not to endanger those *if* id gets stolen, or something goes awry. I too, am dropping the credit cards.

Blu


Exactly. When I do order anything online, and it aint often, I use my debit card. Same as paying cash, no interest charges coming at you later. Mosi ot my money is in a savings account. I transfer just enough to the checking to pay bills, or order things.

The other day I was perusing my account information online, as I do every other day or so. I found a purchase made from Turino Italy, off a website that is entirely in Italian, (http://www.bakeca.it). Now I cannot speak or read Italian, and anyway, I have never been to Italy, let alone Turino Italy. Called the bank, cancelled my card, put a freeze on my account for a week, got a new card coming in seven days or so.

That is the reason to keep minimum money in the cards account.


are they holding you liable for the purchase?
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Re: Citibank yanks MasterCards

Unread postby VZR1800 » Mon 26 Oct 2009, 11:28:48

I don't know as of yet. This happened on Friday, and seeing as how they were closed all weekend, the "48 hours to review the complaint" has not started yet. I doubt it though, after all this charge actually originated in Italy, to a site that is all Italian. Seems pretty probable it is a fraudulent charge to anyone that has a pulse. :mrgreen:
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Re: Citibank yanks MasterCards

Unread postby Tiberius » Mon 26 Oct 2009, 13:29:31

Well, don't forget there is big difference between debit cards and credit cards when it comes to the ability to dispute a transaction. Say you order something online and either don't get it, or it's not at all what you ordered.

With debit cards, the money is nearly instantly debited from your account, so this is much like cash, and so if you have dispute with the seller, you are pretty much out of luck.

With a credit card, if you dispute the transaction then the credit card company takes your side and immediately credits your account for the amount in question, while they investigate the claim.

This investigation generally means big headaches for the vendor. The CC company takes these so-called "chargebacks" very very seriously. I know because I used to have a merchant account. The percentage rate the merchant pays to the CC company / bank is tied to your history of chargebacks as well, and if you get too many chargebacks, your merchant account is cancelled. And then, it becomes hard as hell to get a new legit merchant account somewhere else.

So generally if you pay for something with a debit card, the seller holds all the cards, and vice versa if you pay with a credit card. Although nowadays, I have heard of some debit cards providing similar "buyer protection" type of policies.
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Re: Citibank yanks MasterCards

Unread postby shortonoil » Mon 26 Oct 2009, 15:08:46

The credit economy is dying rapidily, along with its currency. It is probably best to get use to it now, rather than after the fact!
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Re: Citibank yanks MasterCards

Unread postby Bas » Mon 26 Oct 2009, 15:17:40

better have a debit card like it's the custom in most western countries, they can't close those.
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Re: Citibank yanks MasterCards

Unread postby careinke » Mon 26 Oct 2009, 15:26:19

I always pay with a credit card vice debit for on-line orders. Since I never carry a balance on my credit cards, interest rate is not a factor. Your liability for credit card fraud is $50.00, for debit cards there is no limit. I use the debit for grocery purchases etc.
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Re: Citibank yanks MasterCards

Unread postby pup55 » Mon 26 Oct 2009, 17:33:36

http://www.walletpop.com/blog/2009/10/21/delinquency-rates-increasing-on-credit-cards/

http://www.creditcards.com/credit-card-news/credit-card-industry-facts-personal-debt-statistics-1276.php#topofpage

http://www.indexcreditcards.com/credit-card-rates-monitor/

Well let's see if we can figure out what they are thinking.....
$this->bbcode_second_pass_code('', '
Citibank
92,000,000 consumers
102,540,000,000 credit outstanding
0.055 overdue percentage
86940000 remaining consumers
5,060,000 consumers overdue
$1,114.57 average balance
$5,639,700,000 exposure due to overdue consumers

50,600,000 consumers that do not pay off balance
$1,114.57 Average balance
$56,397,000,000 Total charges outstanding

0.1539 Interest Rate
$8,679,498,300 Annual Interest Income

50,600,000 consumers that do not pay off balance
$111.46 amount that needs to be extracted from each consumer
0.100 Additional interest needed to extract that amount from each consumer

0.254 New annual interest rate
')

You figure that 5% of your consumers are over 30 days overdue, and are going to leave you holding the bag for something on the order of $5B......

You only made about $8B per year in interest on the remaining customers, since, on average 45% of the credit card holders carry "zero" balance....

So you have to extract that money from the remaining consumers, either by fees, or by raising the interest rate you charge......

And although you love all consumers, because of the charges you can extract from retailers when they use your card, you would really like to increase the number of people over which you can spread that $5B, or at the very least, reduce the number of consumers that you have that, for example, just keep their credit cards around for emergencies, because that costs you overhead, but does not bring in any income.... So that is why a lot of people who carry small balances are being dumped, or alternately, some annual fee is now being charged for administration....or, why if you live in one of the counties on here that are in blue, you and your neighbors could have a significantly higher risk of being a defaulter.... County of residence is often a pretty good predictor....

http://data.newyorkfed.org/creditconditions/

The other alternative, of course, is for them to just increase their interest rates. In order to make up for that five percent delinquencies, per the above calculation, they need to charge their non-balance paying consumers an additional 10% per year, which would bring the average credit card interest rate up to about 25%.

I don't know if you have been catching the "credit revolt" chick on any of the TV shows:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/26/ann-minch-to-chase-bank-a_n_333625.html

but she is complaining about Bank of America increasing her interest rate up to 30% which caused a national outcry and caused her to be practically a celebrity:

Here's the calculation for Bank of America:
$this->bbcode_second_pass_code('', '
Bank of America
80,200,000 consumers
150,000,000,000 credit outstanding
0.0753 overdue percentage
74160940 remaining consumers
6,039,060 consumers overdue
$1,870.32 average balance
$11,295,000,000 exposure due to overdue consumers

44,110,000 consumers that do not pay off balance
$1,870.32 Average balance
$82,500,000,000 Total charges outstanding

0.1539 Interest Rate
$12,696,750,000 Annual Interest Income

44,110,000 consumers that do not pay off balance
$256.06 amount that needs to be extracted from each consumer
0.137 Additional interest needed to extract that amount from each consumer

0.291 annual interest rate
')

The 30% interest rate that people are talking about is almost exactly the amount it would take to recover that $11B or so that their higher-than-average 7.5% delinquency rate is causing them to have to write off!

So it is pretty simple and the numbers roughly work out, provided some of our simplifying assumptions are pretty close to correct.

By their calculation that 5-7% (and growing) percent of people that are overdue will not pay their balance back.....So, in order to make that money up, they will use a variety of ways, including fees, late charges, administration fees, paper billing fees, electronic billing fees and any of a dozen things to try to raise some money.

Can you see that when the percentage gets to be some level, like right about now, the whole system will implode? People will tear up their cards, no longer put on balances, and there will be no way for the credit card people to extract that money. The credit card business will no longer be profitable at these levels of delinquency, particularly if even more consumers refuse to pay off their balance. At some point point, someone will do they should have done long ago, which is what they used to do back in the 70's before deregulation, which is to scale down their entire business and only give credit to people who are credit-worthy! Can you imagine?

At that point, the credit-card fueled consumer economy will grind to the screeching halt that Kunstler has been rooting for, and people will have to start living within their means, whatever that may be.

Here, by the way, is a link to the excellent Frontline show on the origin of all of this stuff....including the practice of locating the businesses in states that allow the instant increase of consumer rates without notice on the whim of the company....

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/credit/eight/

By the way, I should add..... If the delinquency rate goes up to 10%, B of A will have to raise their interest rate to 33% to break even. And, at 19% delinquencies, the rate will be 50%, so you can see the brick wall point is actually pretty close to where we are right now...
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Re: Citibank yanks MasterCards

Unread postby aldente » Mon 26 Oct 2009, 21:59:09

How pretty that some of the posters here have "their ducks in a row" while the rest of the ship is sinkin..
Obviously retirees talking..
Good luck facing death!
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Re: Citibank yanks MasterCards

Unread postby pup55 » Mon 26 Oct 2009, 22:14:24

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')ASHINGTON — Senate Banking Committee Chairman Chris Dodd, who is fighting for his political survival, proposed Monday an immediate interest rate freeze on existing balances for the estimated 700 million credit cards in circulation.


[url]Read more at: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/2 ... 34633.html[/url]

By the way....

Chris Dodd was one of the chief felons who pushed through the bank bailout WITHOUT any accountability for the idiot managers that ran the system into the ground, and WITHOUT any sort of correction in the inexcusable reward-for-failure stituation that we now have with the bonuses....and as a result, should be one of the first ones hung by his genitals from one of the flagpoles at the corner of Wall and Broad....

but in light of the previous conversation, and two calculations, can you now see that this is quite possibly the stupidest idea ever, certain to kill the credit card industry, and quite possibly the banking industry, and is 100 percent political posturing?
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Re: Citibank yanks MasterCards

Unread postby Tanada » Tue 27 Oct 2009, 06:38:57

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pup55', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')ASHINGTON — Senate Banking Committee Chairman Chris Dodd, who is fighting for his political survival, proposed Monday an immediate interest rate freeze on existing balances for the estimated 700 million credit cards in circulation.


[url]Read more at: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/2 ... 34633.html[/url]

By the way....

Chris Dodd was one of the chief felons who pushed through the bank bailout WITHOUT any accountability for the idiot managers that ran the system into the ground, and WITHOUT any sort of correction in the inexcusable reward-for-failure stituation that we now have with the bonuses....and as a result, should be one of the first ones hung by his genitals from one of the flagpoles at the corner of Wall and Broad....

but in light of the previous conversation, and two calculations, can you now see that this is quite possibly the stupidest idea ever, certain to kill the credit card industry, and quite possibly the banking industry, and is 100 percent political posturing?


Worse yet while flipping channels last night when I got home from work I saw a video clip of Barney Frank insisting that all none bank financial institutions would be eliminated. IOW no more credit unions, no more mortgage companies etc etc...

What the heck are these guys thinking? A lot of us rely on none bank financial institutions to buy cars, houses, whatever. Take them out of the mix by fiat and you will kill the economy a lot deader than it already is!
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Re: Citibank yanks MasterCards

Unread postby pup55 » Tue 27 Oct 2009, 08:08:02

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'a')ll none bank financial institutions would be eliminated.


Oh, that will be the day. The day that law is passed makes various organized crime organizations even wealthier because a black market will spring up...for that segment of the population that is unable to go to the bank and get money for whatever reason.

The "payday loan business" is estimated to be about $42B but serves a part of the market that, whatever else you say, has need for its services, and is growing....That goes away and where do these people go for money?

I think there are three flagpoles on the NYSE building....Room for one more....

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Re: Citibank yanks MasterCards

Unread postby Kez » Thu 05 Nov 2009, 01:24:06

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('VZR1800', 'M')y wife and I have no credit cards.
Wake me when you are there.
Who f--kin needs them?
More trouble than they are worth!


I have excellent credit and therefore have a Citibank Platinum Dividend card. Every year, Citibank pays me about $125 in cash from my cashback awards and I pay them jack squat. It's just like anything else, learn to work the system they setup to your advantage.
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