[Gazzatrone]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', 'I')'m sure our great planners are surprised that installing "democracy" in a "country" made of three ancient tribes when one has 60% of the vote would cause the other two to believe they have no power at the ballot box.

[mekrob]

Why wouldn't it have just been best to split the nation up by ethnic and religious boundaries? There could exist an informal, loose relationship or maybe even alliance, but this way they could each have democracy.

I've never been a big fan of major nations becoming democracies. It is too easy to manipulate because one could never really know the candidates, just their talking points and that's all that would ever been discussed, not real policies and the sort. With smaller democracies, candidates must go out and meet with individual towns and villages. People have a much better sense of the persons. They aren't just some guy from Baghdad or New York, but your neighbor.

The main problem though is oil. The Sunnis would have almost none, maybe East Baghdad. But the real prize would be in Kirkuk and in the South, especially because of waterways for transport.

[Free]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mekrob', 'W')hy wouldn't it have just been best to split the nation up by ethnic and religious boundaries? There could exist an informal, loose relationship or maybe even alliance, but this way they could each have democracy.

[Eli]

There is no way that US military can stop a civil war at this point.

And the generals are probably getting pretty upset right now. They were short on men before and now as the fighting gets worse that is going to put them in an even worse spot.

The generals are saying get us more men or get us the hell out. We are in there too deep to just cut and run but we also don't have the balls to call for a draft.

[Zardoz]

In the last few months I've talked to two young Army soldiers who were home on leave from Iraq. Both said that the word was that should the Sunnis and Shiites come to full-on civil war, American forces were going to stand down and back off.

The thinking was that trying to get in between the two sides would be a true no-win situation for us, because we would only further alienate both sides, and we really wouldn't be able to stop the fighting anyway.

Let's hope the two soldiers were correct. Let's hope our "leadership" sees the wisdom of that way of thinking, and doesn't order our guys to, once again, attempt the impossible.

[lateStarter]

Thanks for the map Mekrob. It would really be educational if someone could possibly layer on top of that the location of the oil fields and pipelines. Anyone?

[mekrob]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('lateStarter', 'T')hanks for the map Mekrob. It would really be educational if someone could possibly layer on top of that the location of the oil fields and pipelines. Anyone?

[Zardoz]

NYT story on this:

U.S. Generals See Growing Threat of Civil War in Iraq

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'S')enator Jack Reed, a Rhode Island Democrat who graduated from West Point and served in the Army for 12 years, said that under Mr. Rumsfeld’s tenure the Army had been stretched beyond its capacity, a situation he called “a stunning indictment of your leadership.”

“It think it’s an inaccurate statement,” Mr. Rumsfeld shot back, going on to say that the situation was more complicated than Mr. Reed had suggested.

[Strelnikov]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Zardoz', ' ')Both said that the word was that should the Sunnis and Shiites come to full-on civil war, American forces were going to stand down and back off.

[Venerye]

Here you go. You're welcome.



Higher quality, larger image here.

[alpha480v]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Eli', '
')
The General made the point that we have far too few troops to handle any kind of insurgency. The US military was screwed over by the Neocon war planners who because of their own hubris thought that by kicking out Sadam everything would be sunshine and smiling faces.

We the US either have to institute the draft to get more people into Iraq or get the hell and the Generals who know what they are talking about are the ones who are saying that.

[worrier]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he General made the point that we have far too few troops to handle any kind of insurgency. The US military was screwed over by the Neocon war planners who because of their own hubris thought that by kicking out Sadam everything would be sunshine and smiling faces.

[grabby]

An old rule is never to get in between two fighting dogs, they will BOTH turn on you.

SADDAM CONTROLLED ALL THREE OF THESE PEOPLE WITHOUT USING MISSILES. Because he was Arab and used a little fear.

there was far less damage with Saddam than what happend in the last 4 years.

Jihad is a belief that a Satanic worldly Country will come and try and take over Arab land
and the Jihad war must be fought to the death to prevent it.
This is Jihad. They have been waiting for this war for 2000 years.
You think they arent going to fight to the death every man woman and child?

Its Jihad and there is an invading country,
the only way to stop it is for the invading country to LEAVE.

You see in their prophecy, the satanic country will not leave,
if we LEAVE then we can't be that Satanic country!
Simple solution.
And they all will instantly stop hating us cause we arent that satanic country anymore cause we left!

simple.

So what do the stubborn people do?
Give in?
NEVER!
THEY COME OVER AND TRY AND TAKE OVER THE COUNTRY.
and keep trying,

well this makes us APPEAR like they must be the satanic country
This is not good.
and I guess every arab will eventually join the fight.
Its Jihad.


Jihad means fight till the last man.

You ahve two choices

kill every Arab

or go home

you cannot stay there.

Eventually the nukes will come then it is the end.

We should suck it up and go home.
The other option will eventually wipe all life out on this earth.
Dumb move.


they WILL fight the war to the death, as long as there is an invading force..

Looks like some leader never took world history, he probably skipped that quarter on a road trip.

But I'll let you in on a little hush-hush secret.
Some people are a doughnut short of a dozen
Aome people you cannot reason with,
and some are just not so bright.

Shhh don't tell anyone.

We have to get out of there or the whole Arab nations will eventually fight us. It is inevitable.
It is their religion that some prophecy that a country WILL COME to take over the arab lands. Then Jihad starts.

So we do it? How bright is that?
Do some people ever think first?
Its almost as if someone WANTED to start Jihad.

Fullfilling their prophecy of being a satan country is not a really wise move.

Time to come home this is not going to solve anything.

Hey boss, say sorry, lets go home.
dinners ready.

[Miki]

Makes you wonder if the increasing incidence of death squads and dead people dropped in the streets of Irak has anything to do with this. Perhaps Rumsfeld decided to go ahead with it and just keep this little piece of info from the American public and the world. After all, it wouldn't be their first (or last) little lie, no?

[web]http://thinkprogress.org/2006/03/02/roots-of-iraq-civil-war-may-be-in-salvador-option/[/web]

[PenultimateManStanding]

"In a desperate bid to rescue a failed policy in Iraq, the Bush administration may have given the green light to a strategy that ends any hope of national reconciliation and finally tears Iraq apart along sectarian and ethnic lines."

Then again, they "may" not have. Rather tendentious wouldn't you say?

[threadbear]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', 'a')bsolutely I could believe this. I was around during the Reagan Death Squad Administration. The death squads in central america specialized in labor leaders, activists, peaceniks. nuns. you know. dangerous liberal-types.

[Miki]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', '"')In a desperate bid to rescue a failed policy in Iraq, the Bush administration may have given the green light to a strategy that ends any hope of national reconciliation and finally tears Iraq apart along sectarian and ethnic lines."

Then again, they "may" not have. Rather tendentious wouldn't you say?

[PenultimateManStanding]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Miki', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', '"')In a desperate bid to rescue a failed policy in Iraq, the Bush administration may have given the green light to a strategy that ends any hope of national reconciliation and finally tears Iraq apart along sectarian and ethnic lines."

Then again, they "may" not have. Rather tendentious wouldn't you say?

[threadbear]

Though many U.S.-backed regimes in Latin America practiced the dark arts of “disappearances” and “death squads,” the history of Guatemala’s security operations is perhaps the best documented because the Clinton administration declassified scores of the secret U.S. documents in the late ‘90s to assist a Guatemalan truth commission. The Guatemala experience also may be the most instructive today in illuminating a possible course of the counterinsurgency in Iraq.

The original Guatemalan death squads took shape in the mid-’60s under anti-terrorist training provided by a U.S. public safety adviser named John Longon, the declassified documents show. In January 1966, Longon reported to his superiors about both overt and covert components of his anti-terrorist strategies.

On the covert side, Longon pressed for “a safe house [to] be immediately set up” for coordination of security intelligence. “A room was immediately prepared in the [Presidential] Palace for this purpose and … Guatemalans were immediately designated to put this operation into effect,” according to Longon’s report. Longon’s operation within the presidential compound became the starting point for the infamous “Archivos” intelligence unit that evolved into a clearinghouse for Guatemala’s most notorious political assassinations.

http://www.inthesetimes.com/site/main/article/669/