[Chichis]

Unplug the PCs? Those things are the last to go. I'll clean my dishes by hand and wash my clothes in a tub before the PC goes.

[JayHMorrison]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Chichis', 'U')nplug the PCs? Those things are the last to go. I'll clean my dishes by hand and wash my clothes in a tub before the PC goes.

[twxabfn]

Hi all, I was just wondering if anybody had any figures for the kind of power output you can expect (on average) per month from a renewable energy system.
I mean, I hear you guys mention XX watt solar panels and the like all the time, but am not sure how those descriptions translate to everyday power usage and how life is going to have to change.
Just as an example, my latest electric bill had me using 114 kWh for August 3rd through September 2nd (excuse me while I duck and cover in case people end up throwing things at me). Is there a renewable energy setup that could possibly produce that kind of power in a month, or am I waaaaaaaaay off base?
Thanks for any information you folks can give.

[gnm]

check these guys out - lots of back issues for free download - I have subscribed for years - an absolutely awesome mag...

http://www.homepower.com

-G

[goldfishbowl42]

Let me just do some Math for you a second. I probably won't be able to explain the whole thing for you but this little bit might help.
1 kWh is 3.6 Mega Joules.
1 W is 1 joule per second
This is now in purely energy terms.
you use roughly 410 MJoules of energy a month.
Divide that by the number of seconds in a Month (30 day month)
You would need a system that produces and constant average of roughly 160 Watts.

Someone else will have to tell you about what kind of system would give you that kind of average bearing in mind the intermitent nature of Renewables.
As just a Complete personal guess I would have thought 6 - 8 square meters of Solar Pannels and a Small Wind Turbine connected to a battery pack and all the rest would probably serve you well without much power loss.
What you also have to ask yourself is that when TSHTF will other people around you let you live in relative luxury while they live in the dark because they didn't have your foresight?
Hope that helps.

[gnm]

300Kwh is a very common number in the US so your usage is fairly low...
114Kwh /30 (days in a month) = 3.8Kwh/day
3800wh /8 (hrs a day) = 475w
account for systems losses (being conservative at 25%)
593.75w production...
You should be able to get by with a small solar system of 600 watts...
6xPW1000 (photowatt 100 watt panel) @ $400.00 ea.
$2400 (panels)
$2200 (4kw inverter like say trace 4024)
(you could sub with a 2kw inverter for maybe $1400)
$400.00 batteries...
$400.00 disconnects/charge controller)
$250.00 Wiring
(I made my own racks out of unistrut for about $150)
- you should be able to put together a system like that for about $5500 bucks.. if you are electrically handy

[MarkR]

You don't mention where you are located. The type of power that you choose will depend on your climate and weather.

If you live in a relatively tropical/mid-lattitude are then a solar power system would probably be your best bet, so long as your weather in generally good.

If you live at higher lattitude, then solar will be less effective, and you should consider an alternative, probably wind.

Your electricity consumption is not unreasonable (it's about average for a UK household during the Summer months), so you would need only a modestly sized system. A system with a 1 kW nominal capacity should give plenty of power, and may allow you to go completely 'off-grid' if equipped with suitable batteries.

Again, careful calculation of your energy demands and resources is essential - your Winter power consumption may be considerably higher, and solar resources considerably less, and if you do want to go 'off-grid' your system will need to be designed for the worst case scenario.

Don't forget other renewable techniques - I presume that you don't heat water with electricity. Direct solar themal hot water is effective, and much cheaper watt-for-watt than PV electric solar, and as heating is very energy intensive, there is plenty of scope for savings.

[gnm]

...and what Mark said.........ditto

Yes when I used 8/hr production I was using my region (US southwest ) as the example... 1Kw would be much better in most areas...


-G

[NevadaGhosts]

I just received my utility bill for this month (for December). Yikes! My wife and I live in a small 1 bedroom apartment. Our heater runs off of natural gas. When I opened the bill, I expected the amount due to be lower, because we have been trying to cut back on using the heater (but it's still gets very cold here where I live in Nevada). The bill was more than last month. About $104. I was shocked! On the billl, I looked at price per natural gas therm, and they had raised it from $51 per therm to $59 per therm in one month. I can never remember this happening before. Looks like perhaps the natural gas shortage is starting to really hit home now. Add this to car gas prices probably rising dramatically in summer of 2005. Is this a serious sign of the troubles to come? What does everyone think about this? What about your gas bills?

[MarkR]

Yeah, it's not just the US that seems to be struggling. There have been a series of even steeper rises in the UK.
The first was in about March last year and was about 20-25%. There have been a series of several more step-rises over the course of the year. As bills for fuel are traditionally sent 3-monthly, some customers have seen very dramatic rises.
Currently NG prices are nearly 100% higher than 12 months ago. As the UK has been rapidly expanding it's NG fired power stations, electricity prices have been hit too.
My last power bill I paid about £0.027 per kWh for off-peak power (night storage heaters. Ugh). For my next bill I expect to pay about £0.035.
And what do I hear on the news the other day - the government is upset that NG prices are rising and companies are taking profits - they're thinking of a special 'windfall' tax on the 'extra' profits. Clearly well thought out.

[NevadaGhosts]

Yeah, our natural gas bill here in Nevada has been rising steadily for a few years now, but I have never seen such a huge jump in one month. I think we will have a major natural gas crisis before we a have an oil crisis. But the oil crisis will come soon after.

[0mar]

Nevada, we are already in a natural gas crisis
{Here. Let's fix that for ya; EE}
Fuckshit i accidently clicked on submit.
I wanted to add that pricing hikes is the first stage of the NG crisis and should keep usage down for a few more months while stocks are refilled. But I don't think we will see a bonified supply shortage for at least another 18 months.
{Fuckshit? Can't be good! EE}

[pilferage]

I'm ecstatic I can bike to school and shower there...
I save about ~50 a month in gas, prolly ~15 a month in NG and maybe 5-10 a month in water....
plus I get a good work out every day! :D

[Specop_007]

My gas bill was $188, I dont have my records handy to compare to previous moneths but it was a bit higher then usual by a noticable margin. Then again, we did have a wicked cold streak for a few weeks which didnt help at all.

[smallpoxgirl]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('NevadaGhosts', 'O')n the billl, I looked at price per natural gas therm, and they had raised it from $51 per therm to $59 per therm in one month.

[ararboin]

Luckily, the only gas I regularly pay for is chainsaw gas.

[Kingcoal]

The Northeast has the biggest fuel oil and NG markets in the US and, surprise, surprise, the highest prices. The past week has been a cold one, going down to about 8 degrees F at night. I have a 2500 sqft, 4 bedroom house and fuel oil heat. I went through about 200 gallons this month at $1.64/gal and that's a good price. NG and electricity track fuel oil prices, so having a NG furnace doesn't save much. I'll easily go through about 750 gallons a year for heat and hot water (the furnace also heats the hot water.) One thing I have noticed is that my electric bill is about $30 cheaper per month than friends that have an electric water heater.

One thing I'm planning on doing is adding a second 275 gallon tank. I have friends that have 1000 gallon buried tanks and they just fill it in March, when the prices colapse. That's the nice thing about oil over NG, you can stock up on it when it's cheap. The other nice thing about fuel oil is that the furnace will burn kerosene and diesel with no problems. I've heard that you can even burn 100% biodiesel, but might have to change out seals in the pump if you use it all the time. Often times, refiners just make diesel if they are unsure about the fuel oil market. If it's a warm winter, the fuel can be sold into the diesel fuel market. A diesel engine will run on fuel oil, but it isn't legal for both tax reasons and sulfur levels.

[NevadaGhosts]

Ah, nevermind. I'm a moron. I didn't read the gas bill right. Therms here are about $ .98 each. I used a 59 this month and 51 last month. It's been very cold here this month. Thanks for pointing that out Smallpoxgirl.

[JayHMorrison]

I am in the process of building a house in North Carolina. The standard home in the neighborhood where we have building (builder is Pulte) has natural gas for the water heater, the home heating and the cooking stove.
Everyone raves that it is more "efficient". The price may still be cheaper, even with Nat Gas at $6. But I am expecting to live in this house for the next 10 years and I know Nat Gas is going to skyrocket. Our local grid is 50% nuclear/50% coal, so electricity prices should stay fairly stable.
My other problem with the design is that none of the windows are "Energy Star" compliant. I walked through a home that is 1/2 built and saw the labels on the newly installed windows.

So when I was negotiating with the builder on options, I told them I don't want any natural gas and I want everything to be based off of electricity. Water heater, home heating and cooking stove. I also want the windows substituted with "Energy Star" compliant windows. The lady was shocked. She said she would looking into whether that was even possible. That was last weekend.
The fact that she even resisted such a request tells me this country has a long way to go.
I plan on installing solar panels on this house. I picked the model with a lot of angled roof surface and I selected a location which will place that roof surface facing the angle of the sun most during the day.

[BabyPeanut]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('JayHMorrison', 'T')he fact that she even resisted such a request tells me this country has a long way to go.