[tsakach]

I have an Avanti refrigerator which is the second most efficient according to energy star and other consumer ratings. The highest rating is the Sunfrost. But at $2300 for the Sunfrost vs $370 for the Avanti, why not just purchase more solar panels with the extra cash?
Here is a comparison of refrigerators:
American Council for an Energy-Efficient Economy: The Most Energy-Efficient Appliances 2005

I also have a SpinX which works well, but can only handle a small load of clothes at a time. The SpinX sounds like a jet engine winding up, and at full speed you feel like backing away from it in horror. But the laundry comes out slightly damp and dries quickly. The water extracted from the clothes is a nasty looking grey sludge. With conventional washing equipment, this stuff is dried into your clothes and remains there.

While the SpinX uses a fraction of the energy compared to conventional equipment, the clothes washer I have is one of the most amazing, energy-efficient innovations available. It does not need electricity, uses only a little hot water, soap and manual effort and it cleans a small load of laundry in a few minutes.


Pressure Handwasher

[Frozen-Stick]

I'm using about 4-5kWh per day =1460-1825kWh a year:

Small camping refrigerator (~50W on average during the day = 438kWh/y), a PC with 350MHz (~100W) and sometimes my notebook (~30W), TV is ~80W (few hours a day, every night with hifi i'm disconnecting the plug because 23W when switched off), a small cooking device with two cooking plates, an electric kettle (2000W, ~1min/day), toaster (900W, sometimes used), lights for evening (~240W), central heating is powered by liquefied propane and butane (=LNG?), insulation in the upper floor is very bad (the insulation of the roof is quite good, but the walls have almost no insulation)=> quite cold in the winter even with central heating.

I'm paying 30€/month (~39$), 18,6 €-Ct/kWh as electric bill (Green current company which uses only hydro, solar and natural gas power in heat and power combined plants), the heating bill is included in the extra charges (i think about 40€/month). The (net) ground area of my appartement is 56m^2 (more ground area because of the inclined roof).

An idea for people with no possibility for drying clothes outside:
What about building a small hut with a big front of glass to the south, thick and insulated walls and roof with small crannies in the upper end of the north-sided wall and other small crannies in the lower end of the south-sided wall for creating a small circulation of air. Inside you have several lines for dropping the clothes.
The hut can be secured by a lock or even attached to the house (it's sometimes ugly to go out in winter).

Another idea for the frigerator:
Perhaps it is possible to construct an inlet and an outlet to and from the frige to an outer wall. So in winter you can use the cold air for cooling. You need only a small fan.
In the summer someone could use cold air from the cellar.

[pea-jay]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Barbara', '
')
Heating: public network methane; hotwater: methane (tankless-endless hotwater); oven: methane. No drier. No AC.
(about 90% population here the same)

Methane bill: about € 100 per month.

But when Putin close the pipeline we pay less .

[pea-jay]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gg3', 'J')ust got my latest electric bill. 265 KWH for a period of 29 days between meter readings. Total bill including gas, $60.24.

[mommy22]

I love that pressure hand washer! That's one thing that I worry about, as we, too, live in a 100% electric house that we (and the bank, for a few more years) own....that the electricity goes down and life would get a bit hard. My mother's day present to me!
I also noticed a reduction in our electric bill after I started conscienciously pulling the plug out whenever it was not in use. DH was not so excited about the idea of plugging in the toaster every morning, but after he saw the difference in usage( and the bill go down)he was on board. Apparently, if the electical item has a heating element to it, that's what sucks up the most electricity. The rep from our power and Light group in Ohio said that girls who keep their curling irons and such plugges in really use a lot of energy. As far as hanging clothes, why is it such a problem to hang your clothes indoors? I've been doing that for years. It takes about 24 hours to dry(less if you put the rack near a heater). I've got a family of 4 and do about 5-6 loads a week. I try to hang out 2-3 loads at one time so it all comes dry at the same time. I do use the dryer for 1-2 loads, and try to wash (and therefore dry) back to back to save on the heating startup. I use cold water for everything except whites and towels.

[gg3]

Re. Tsakach:

As the cost of PV panels comes down, SunFrost will have to reduce their price to remain competitive:-). I think what they're counting on now in their business model is the tradeoff between the cost of their fridge and the cost of adding more PVs.

SpinX: Yes, sounds like a jet engine; but so does a vacuum cleaner and you don't back away in horror whilst vacuuming, eh?:-). The small load size is necessary otherwise the unit has to become much larger & heavier to have enough mass to stay put rather than vibrating & inching its way across the floor.

WonderClean: Yes, I tried that during my "manual laundry" experiments. Works quite well if used properly; load capacity is about 2 lbs. maybe a little more; rinsing can take longer depending on what you do about wringing out the water at each cycle.

One thing to be careful about: with a dense load such as blue jeans, if you crank that thing too hard (i.e. high starting torque in each direction), you can shear off the connection between the crank and the container. In fact it's a very strong connection, but a strong person can cause it to break if they're not careful. And that's not a replaceable part (or even repairable, I tried various options including putting a bolt through there). However if used with more reasonable force, it should last forever.

Frozen-stick:

Good point about having the fridge connected to outdoor air. In fact I see a potential R&D project there. The connections would have to be removable and sealable at both ends, i.e. so in summer you can remove the flexible duct and put an insulated closure on the openings at the fridge.

Also it would need at least a metal screen and a basic foam dust filter to keep out a) mice etc. and b) dust. This setup should be controlled by a thermostat, and it should also be possible for it to shut off and switch back to the conventional refrigeration cycle in the event of a warm day in winter (more and more likely with climate change).

Re. outdoor clothes drying shed: I've been thinking along similar lines. And use it for a greenhouse as well, with at least some nice hanging plants to keep the air fresh, plus or minus pollen allergy issues. But you might even be able to grow some food crops in there as well. The place should get hot even if the entire window area is filled with plants. And it does need ventilation to let the humidity out. I use an indoor clothes line at present, and a total of 20 linear feet of clothes line (about 7 meters) is sufficient for a load of about 6 - 8 lbs. (3 to 4 kilos), so when designing a drying shed, measure and plan before you build. Using masonry is a good idea for thermal mass so the place stays warm at night .

PeeJay:

Re. the electric bill: I can get to that over the weekend and see if I can extract the figures you're looking for.

Re. hot water in laundry: However, cold water can leave plenty of bacteria deposited on the clothes; hot water is a good idea where sanitizing is needed e.g. underwear, towels, etc., or alternately use chlorine bleach.

Highspeed spin causes no harm to fabrics, as long as you don't load stuff such that e.g. a shirt collar is sitting right at the center of the axis of the cylinder and is loaded loosely enough that it will get stretched. In fact, tumbling in the conventional dryer causes more wear due to friction. If you load the spinner correctly, nothing will ever get stretched. One way to go about this is to place an object such as a clean soda bottle that's about 2" diameter, right in the center of the spinner, and pack the load around it so there's a "hole" in the center of the load. Then remove the soda bottle, close the lid, and spin away. After a while you'll get the hang of it and won't need the soda bottle as a placeholder.

Agreed that conventional washers don't use that much power in the first place, I recall mine was at about 2x the power consumption per pound of laundry compared to the twin-tub (I can go look up those numbers also). For most people the time to consider buying a high-efficiency machine is when you're already going to buy a new washer anyway, i.e. moving house or the old one broke down or whatever. Otherwise the old one can keep chugging along fine.

Re. fridges: ha, "great minds think alike":-). However there is more to doing this than it appears at first, which is why it turned into an R&D project here. Let's get in touch via PM...

Re. cooking appliances: I would guess that anything 1500 watts or below could reasonably be accommodated on most offgrid systems. But if an oven is using 4500 watts, that's a lot of power to draw at one time even if only used for e.g. an hour to bake a cake or something (4.5 KWH), the peak load of 4500 watts could exceed the capacity of an offgrid system. I'm just getting started on this project so I may be completely full of poo at the moment.

Re. basement air for refrigeration: I'd be concerned about any molds or other airborne nasties getting into the food. This looks like another area for R&D if anyone's interested.

[0mar]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Barbara', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'B')arbara,
What do you use to heat your house and hotwater with? And is your domestic hot water a tank or tankless model?

[pea-jay]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'R')e. hot water in laundry: However, cold water can leave plenty of bacteria deposited on the clothes; hot water is a good idea where sanitizing is needed e.g. underwear, towels, etc., or alternately use chlorine bleach.

[pea-jay]

Actually, the guy has a pretty good blog going over at P.M.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/blog/energyfamily

[Oily_Bill]

The killawatt meter is a useful device - I used mine to identify usage of Computer, CD player, TV etc. on and on standby. The entertainment center pulled 60 watts on standby !

I got hold of pluggable remote control devices which go between the appiance and the mains. So even though the sockets are in hard to get at places (behind setee, behind tv, etc.) I can turn the devides off and on with a simple remote. Works well, cost about £40 for four devices and the remote. From Maplin electronics. Saves a few KwH a month for sure.

[pea-jay]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Oily_Bill', '
')
I got hold of pluggable remote control devices which go between the appiance and the mains. So even though the sockets are in hard to get at places (behind setee, behind tv, etc.) I can turn the devides off and on with a simple remote. Works well, cost about £40 for four devices and the remote. From Maplin electronics. Saves a few KwH a month for sure.

[Frozen-Stick]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mommy22', ' ')As far as hanging clothes, why is it such a problem to hang your clothes indoors? I've been doing that for years. It takes about 24 hours to dry(less if you put the rack near a heater). I've got a family of 4 and do about 5-6 loads a week. I try to hang out 2-3 loads at one time so it all comes dry at the same time. I do use the dryer for 1-2 loads, and try to wash (and therefore dry) back to back to save on the heating startup. I use cold water for everything except whites and towels.

[PeakOiler]

I'm curious to know how much money people spend per year powering their home. Specifically, what do you pay the electric utility, natural gas company, or for fuel oil on an annual basis? Let's compare numbers.

I thought if would be interesting to collect a set of data from PO members as opposed to looking at government statistics.

I'll start. My house uses no natural gas, propane, or fuel oil. It's "all-electric". (Not counting my wood stove, solar water heater, or a 36-watt PV panel.)

Here are my data for the last eleven years:
Year kw-hrs Amount($)
1995 12639 938.92
1996 12200 978.51
1997 13571 1023.90
1998 14755 1087.90

1999 11306 879.80
2000 12288 995.32
2001 9781 872.87
2002 7857 694.47
2003 5913 542.23
2004 5162 571.65
2005 6532 769.43
2006 YTD 2876 506.56

I recall reading that some people that use fuel oil to heat their homes can easily spend $700/mo during the winter. That blows me away. That's about what I spend in an entire year.

[mekrob]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I') recall reading that some people that use fuel oil to heat their homes can easily spend $700/mo during the winter. That blows me away. That's about what I spend in an entire year

[PeakOiler]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mekrob', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I') recall reading that some people that use fuel oil to heat their homes can easily spend $700/mo during the winter. That blows me away. That's about what I spend in an entire year

[Aaron]

$70 per month?
In Texas?
Sounds sweaty...

[PeakOiler]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Aaron', '$')70 per month?
In Texas?
Sounds sweaty...

[Vexed]

Our household avg. over last 2 years:
50 a month in utilities
500 a month in gas

[PeakOiler]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Vexed', 'O')ur household avg. over last 2 years:
50 a month in utilities
500 a month in gas

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PeakOiler', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Aaron', '$')70 per month?
In Texas?
Sounds sweaty...