THE Free Trade Thread (merged)

by **seldom_seen** » Sat 16 Jul 2005, 00:24:05

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE:
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')f you are a citizen of the United States, your citizenship is no longer valid or recognized. The Senate voted yesterday against fulfilling its pledge from last year to hire 2,000 more Border Patrol agents and fund 8,000 new detention beds for illegal aliens.

The Senate has sent a clear message that the US government refuses to enforce immigration laws or protect the sovereign boundaries of the United States. Formally a constitution-based federal republic that was known for a strong democratic tradition. The territory representing the United States is now part of a larger regional as well as hemispheric trading bloc that will be administered by large multi-national corporations.

The government at this time will continue to use the name "United States" so as not to frighten a docile consumer population or inhibit consumer confidence.

Opposition groups have voiced concern about terrorist threats from an unguarded border. Presidend Bush responded promptly that in the war on terror an "open border is the best policy." "We can not let the terrorists win" said Bush. "I encourage everyone to take that vacation, buy that new car or go to the mall...because if we do not act now, the terrorists have won."

When asked about the recent "Minuteman" project to have citizens guard the border. The president responded quickly and resolutely that the minutemen were "unpatriotic vigilantes and a threat to our way of life and our freedom." Mexican president Vincente Fox praised Bush's comments as he lounged in the hot tub at Bush's crawford ranch.

by **k_semler** » Sat 16 Jul 2005, 02:03:53

Q: What can be done about this?

A: Not a god damn thing, that's what.

Welcome to the USSA. Home of the Indebited Sheeple, home of the Metrosexual male. The USA is dead, the USSA has now been established. The ideals of freedom, and justice for all have been replaced by "Security and income redistribution for all". The USSA sucks, I want the USA back. Just think, we were once the nation that was envied world wide for our ability, and now we are shunned like the bastard child that we have become. Isn't justice sweet?

\This fuckig sucks. We need some more beer. It is good for you. Drunkenness is happiness. Mmm, beer. I have dranke 10 bewrs to night how many did you dring? Mmm, beer. DAMN, I think I need another one.

by **jmacdaddio** » Sat 16 Jul 2005, 03:01:44

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'M')ore cheap labor is always good for business

by **AQIUS** » Sat 16 Jul 2005, 05:06:39

well, I see another pro-immigration person spouting the usual slogans is on the board. I happen to have a few minutes free so I'll respond:

This person & others just dont get it. Sure, America is a nation of immigrants. Thats all well and good. The only problem is the immigrants of days past didnt come over by the MILLIONS every year!! There is just no possible way the USA can absorb all of Mexico, Central & South America's immigrants. It cant be done. BUT ,.. they keep trying ..
And regarding the myth(yes myth) of US citizens NOT wanting to pick crops or other menial work, that is a lie. The problem is the LEGAL citizens CANT AFFORD to work those low wage jobs WITHOUT LIVING LIKE RABBITS - 4 families to a house / 20 workers to an apartment.
The ag farmers & other business' WILL NOT raise their prices to some far fetched $10-a-tomato nightmare. Shoppers wont pay it.
And go ahead, try to demand the growers pay the workers a fair wage ... the growers will laugh at you & STILL PAY NOTHING to the workers while pocketing the extra money. I live in the Northern CA valley. I SEE all the lies & myths from all angles. If the farmers are hurting so bad, how come they all manage to drive brand new $40,000 Ford F350 SuperCab trucks?
Same with the construction foremen & owners. They charge union wages for a job then pay min wage to the workers:pocket a huge difference.
SHHHHhh thats our little secret ... dont say anything .. just get in on the gravy train ... there you go bro.
Excuse me for daring to dream but I thought here in America things are supposed to be BETTER than the rest of the world? Isn't that why people try to come here? I don't see anyone killing themselves trying to sneak into Rwanda. It's too bad our corrupt leaders sold us out to the greedy businessmen. I have to laugh everytime someone bashes the US as a white controlled racist nation: yet, they still want to live there. The U.S. isnt perfect but it's the best system in the world right now.
Remember in the 80's & 90's when you'd see fast food places practically begging people to work? signs advertising " $8.00 hr crew help" all over. I used to marvel at that wage increase. Well, I bet you a gas tank fillup that those same business people screamed bloody murder to washington about having to pay that much for labor .. and now look where we are ... desperate people flooding .. not a controlled orderly flow but FLOODING into the country .. driving down wages ... living standards .. and more.
We are so screwed.
This country is already Mexifornia - they just dont know it yet.

by **BabyPeanut** » Sat 16 Jul 2005, 09:41:15

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AQIUS', 'T')his country is already Mexifornia - they just dont know it yet.

by **dmtu** » Sat 16 Jul 2005, 11:31:55

News that seems to be sliding under the mat link.
I think I already know how most of you will answer. Personally I feel like this is part of the US government selling us down the river.

by **Specop_007** » Sat 16 Jul 2005, 12:10:24

It depends by what you mean by "benefit"
On one hand we get cheaper goods.
On the other hand, those goods are generally of an inferior quality, those goods funds are used to finance the militaries of our enemies and those agreements undermine the manufacturing base of America, which costs us jobs.

I think free trade is a HORRIBLE idea. Personally, I think we need to cut as many ties to China as humanely possible.
Which means, we should cut ALL ties to China.

by **jmacdaddio** » Sat 16 Jul 2005, 13:59:51

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I') see another pro-immigration person spouting the usual slogans is on the board

by **Eli** » Sat 16 Jul 2005, 15:03:43

We will see how far our country has slid down the road to Corporate fascism.

If we fall into a another great depression and all those jobs now done by Mexican workers and other illegal immigrants become very precious to everyone and the Government then does nothing about immigration then that will be it. The Republic will be dead.

If the people of the United States were starving on bread lines like they were in the 1930's they would be screaming for something to be done about illegal workers. I think right now most people are too busy to care what happens with illegals and they themselves enjoy the benefits of the cheap labor.

Once those labor intensive and low skill jobs become valuable to the lower and middle classes and just having a job to feed your kids seems like damn fine job indeed.

Then there will be enough political will to enforce immigration laws and actually begin deporting illegal workers or start another American revolution .

If the Government does not act then the Republic will be moribund.

by **SeaGypsy** » Wed 11 Mar 2009, 00:51:57

If you take the following scenario; rapid and overwhelming collapse af the Instruments of Free Trade, shortages emerging worldwide in key commodities leading the world inexorably towards resource wars. Might it not be better for the USA in the long run to make like a tortoise?

Of course there would be a lot of pain involved in this contraction; I am not ignoring that. But I am really interested to know if:

Americans would support the fast tracking of phase out of GFT?

Does the USA have the resources internally to survive, or even thrive; in a simpler less consumptive model?

Is this the only way in the long run to get out of the mess the USA is in?

What about my car!? Seems to be the main argument for continuing dependence on international markets; surely some slightly drastic measures combined with re-tooling could make up a huge chunk of the difference very quickly.

For instance, where I live the family 'car' is a 125cc motorcycle with a sidecar. These can cost under USD$1000, get 100 miles to a gallon and carry up to 10 people in a squeeze, or a family of four reasonably comfortably. So who loves this idea and who hates it? Why?

by **SeaGypsy** » Wed 11 Mar 2009, 06:08:08

I'm not sure what to think about not getting a single opinion on this?
(10 hrs, 20 reads, no post.) I thought this would be on the cards as at least a possibility.

I'm old enough to remember having oldies in the house who remembered the Great Depression like it was yesterday.
Most thought Globalism and free trade were mistakes. Mistakes to be paid for by future generations.

They would say "Only a country who can stand on it's own two feet can control it's destiny."

Were they wrong?

Or is everyone scared to cop the labels that go with the whole concept?
Does anyone remember those talks from Granny?

by MD » Wed 11 Mar 2009, 06:26:19

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', 'I')'m not sure what to think about not getting a single opinion on this?
(10 hrs, 20 reads, no post.) I thought this would be on the cards as at least a possibility.

by **ReverseEngineer** » Wed 11 Mar 2009, 06:38:23

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MD', '
')Perhaps if you start out by explaining what GFT means, and then add some detail as to just what exactly will happen if it's phased out, then perhaps a meaningful response would appear.

I for one have NO idea what you are on about! (I googled GFT and came up with Global Forex Trade, and I guess that fits...but if so, how does your car/motorcycle fit into the discussion)

Then again your post could be targeted to currency traders specifically, in which case you need to be more patient.

by **SeaGypsy** » Wed 11 Mar 2009, 06:39:02

MD Thanks& done :roll:

I am not living in the USA I have not done so for 30 years; I am more interested in what Americans think of this idea than throwing my ideas around further than I have in the introduction.

by **SeaGypsy** » Wed 11 Mar 2009, 07:12:56

OK at RE's request I will venture an opinion:

I do think the USA could do this; that is become isolationist.
I don't believe it would be painless, or that it could happen in an extremely short time.

What's to lose? A lot of business relationships, a ton of money, a couple of wars in progress and a few more possible on the horizon.

What's to gain?

Independence. What is that worth? Is it worth my car? (Yep.)

A new Spirit for American Revival.

The question that hits me is what would have happened if the USA had not gone down the free trade route? How much of the phantom wealth which has become so much of a problem would never have been created.

What I don't know is: do Americans want this? Do they even think it's possible? Would it be worth the pain?

To put the concept in a time frame of let's say five years.

by MD » Wed 11 Mar 2009, 07:18:03

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ReverseEngineer', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MD', '
')Perhaps if you start out by explaining what GFT means, and then add some detail as to just what exactly will happen if it's phased out, then perhaps a meaningful response would appear.

I for one have NO idea what you are on about! (I googled GFT and came up with Global Forex Trade, and I guess that fits...but if so, how does your car/motorcycle fit into the discussion)

Then again your post could be targeted to currency traders specifically, in which case you need to be more patient.

by **SeaGypsy** » Wed 11 Mar 2009, 07:27:06

OK MD Sorry for crossed wires readers. Anyone gonna say somethin' Or yus wanna pick on me Engles?

EDIT; later....

Another hour or so has clicked by. There have been 25+ lurkers; but no posts of any significance as yet...mmmm?

I am wondering who people are concerned about when they won't comment on a question as obvious as this one.

by **SeaGypsy** » Wed 11 Mar 2009, 08:18:18

If the lurker counter function is working; this is a real quiet crowd?!
My screen has shown 8/10 members& 15/20 guests on the edge of their seats waiting with baited breath. Granny would be ashamed! :oops:

by **holmes** » Wed 11 Mar 2009, 12:43:25

I find it so ironic and humourous that the ones in this country that are so against the system and despise and hate America fell right into the PONZI powers that be hands. LOL! They are what they hate.
The lords are just loving it.
I know you know what I mean Seldom_Seen Smith ;-)

ROFLMAO!
I just can not look at these people that were supposed to be the ones revitalizing Americas creativity and revival with a straight face and without screaming "BULLSH*T Artists!" :-)

GFT? Its all good!