[MattSavinar]

If industrial civilization gains access to free energy, it will do the same thing an obese person would do if given an unlimited gift certificate to McDonald's.

Matt

[Hydro]

Holy crap, you know less than I thought. I asked you a direct question, now answer it. If you're challenging me, you better back it up. I'll even post it again for you:

"No it doesn't. I asked you this already, how would "free energy" enable us to consume "every resource on the planet".

Just because it is called "free energy", doesn't mean it has no cost!! Wind power can be considered "free" because it comes from the Sun. However it costs money to setup and maintain. So that is an acceptable solution to you? But something that doesn't require the Sun, say a "magnetic motor",
which has a setup cost and a maintenance cost, would all of a sudden give us the ability to consume "every resource on the planet". I told you.. government regulations protect the planet, not our sources of energy.

Nice try."

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MattSavinar', 'I')f industrial civilization gains access to free energy, it will do the same thing an obese person would do if given an unlimited gift certificate to McDonald's.

Matt

[MattSavinar]

Hydro:

Fine, if you gave an obese person a 50% off everything gift certificate to McDonals, what would they do?

Keep eating and thus keep exacerberating all the problems that access to abundant cheap energy created in the first place.

The solution is not to keep giving the obese person more and more energy (food) in hopes of putting off the pain of going on a diet and starting an exercise program.

The solution if for the obese person to wake the f--k up and realize their energy intensive lifestyle needs to undergo some radical, fundamental, and unforturnately very painful changes.

If a person doesn't know how to handle money do you give them more money? No, they will just continue to mishandle it and likely hurt themsleves in the process.

Wouldn't be a better idea to let them learn how to handle money responsibly in the first place?

Not that it matters, because the chances of them winning the lottery (gaining access to extremely cheap money) is so slim, it is almost a moot point.

Matt

[MattSavinar]

Hydro:

I can pretty much guarantee you I've studied free enrgy 100X more than you have. In addition to have 40 issues of Infinite Energy magazine sitting about 5 feet from me, several books, and videos, I have actually attempted to build such a device myself.

I was also on a first name basis with Mallove prior to his murder and had spoken with him extensively about his research.

Matt

[Hydro]

Again, nice answer to my question, Morgan Spurlock.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MattSavinar', 'H')ydro:

Fine, if you gave an obese person a 50% off everything gift certificate to McDonals, what would they do?

Keep eating and thus keep exacerberating all the problems that access to abundant cheap energy created in the first place.

The solution is not to keep giving the obese person more and more energy (food) in hopes of putting off the pain of going on a diet and starting an exercise program.

The solution if for the obese person to wake the f--k up and realize their energy intensive lifestyle needs to undergo some radical, fundamental, and unforturnately very painful changes.

If a person doesn't know how to handle money do you give them more money? No, they will just continue to mishandle it and likely hurt themsleves in the process.

Wouldn't be a better idea to let them learn how to handle money responsibly in the first place?

Not that it matters, because the chances of them winning the lottery (gaining access to extremely cheap money) is so slim, it is almost a moot point.

Matt

[Hydro]

Hmmmmm that's quite interesting, Matt.

So basically, you're bashing free energy because "its not a solution". But have given me no evidence as to how it differs from wind power, yet that is a solution for you.

Further, you say you have 40 issues of Infinite Energy magazine, have tried to build a free energy machine, and was on a first name basis with Mallove - so obviously you've spent alot of your life on "free energy".

So suffice to say, you've spent so much time and effort studying free energy, and now claim that a free energy device would not help the world.

What the hell are you smoking man? This is getting too funny. I always knew something didn't sit right with me after reading your website the first time. This is the icing on the cake.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MattSavinar', 'H')ydro:

I can pretty much guarantee you I've studied free enrgy 100X more than you have. In addition to have 40 issues of Infinite Energy magazine sitting about 5 feet from me, several books, and videos, I have actually attempted to build such a device myself.

I was also on a first name basis with Mallove prior to his murder and had spoken with him extensively about his research.

Matt

[Hydro]

My apologies. Apparantly Matt's credibility has been in question before. I knew it! I knew it!

http://www.peakoil.com/fortopic639.html

Thanks for the entertainment Matt, I'll look for people around here that can bring something of value to the debate. You and your website obviously do not.

[Aaron]

Matt does have a point I have heard from several credible scientists.

Without the limitation of finite energy to restrain our growth, where do we stop?

Just how many people did you intend to invite to this party?

It matters very little however... the "free energy" approach is only valuable in separating naive investors from their money.

"Free Energy" is not science guys... it's little more than a cheap hustle. There is not a shred of credible evidence to support this... it's nonsense.

See MarkR's comments this thread.

[MattSavinar]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Hydro', 'H')mmmmm that's quite interesting, Matt.

So basically, you're bashing free energy because "its not a solution". But have given me no evidence as to how it differs from wind power, yet that is a solution for you.

Further, you say you have 40 issues of Infinite Energy magazine, have tried to build a free energy machine, and was on a first name basis with Mallove - so obviously you've spent alot of your life on "free energy".

So suffice to say, you've spent so much time and effort studying free energy, and now claim that a free energy device would not help the world.

What the hell are you smoking man? This is getting too funny. I always knew something didn't sit right with me after reading your website the first time. This is the icing on the cake.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MattSavinar', 'H')ydro:

I can pretty much guarantee you I've studied free enrgy 100X more than you have. In addition to have 40 issues of Infinite Energy magazine sitting about 5 feet from me, several books, and videos, I have actually attempted to build such a device myself.

I was also on a first name basis with Mallove prior to his murder and had spoken with him extensively about his research.

Matt

[MattSavinar]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Hydro', 'H')mmmmm that's quite interesting, Matt.

So basically, you're bashing free energy because "its not a solution". But have given me no evidence as to how it differs from wind power, yet that is a solution for you.

Further, you say you have 40 issues of Infinite Energy magazine, have tried to build a free energy machine, and was on a first name basis with Mallove - so obviously you've spent alot of your life on "free energy".

So suffice to say, you've spent so much time and effort studying free energy, and now claim that a free energy device would not help the world.

What the hell are you smoking man? This is getting too funny. I always knew something didn't sit right with me after reading your website the first time. This is the icing on the cake.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MattSavinar', 'H')ydro:

prior to his murder and had spoken with him extensively about his research.

Matt

[WebHubbleTelescope]

That scammers site has this in the title:
Welcome to the world's first fueless magnetic engine

This is rich. Look closely at the wording. Notice that he is not selling fuel-less technology, but technology that needs no fue's. What's a fue? I don't know, but he can't get sued by a fue.

You don't have to know anything about technology to know this guy's a whack job.

The other tip-off is the reference to nitrogen power. I didn't bother to look at it in depth, as the rule of thumb is to leave quickly when you see the second scheme marketed

By comparison, an invention that has the initial appearance of a scam, but does have potential is described here:
http://mobjectivist.blogspot.com/2004/07/farad-day.html

What's interesting is that this particular Japanese fellow's hawking of his ultracapicitor has similar painful grammatical constructions, but has a basis in engineering and physics.

If Hydro comes back, I will point him to my bubble bursting invention.

[Chichis]

If the human race wants to survive, it has to leave the planet at some point. All of human civilization has developed during a time of extremely ideal conditions. No large meteors, no large amounts of volcanic activity, no pole shifts, and no large temperature changes. This isn't going to last forever.

If we don't get our eggs out of this single basket before we lose the capability to do so, then we've got no chance. Matt argues that it would be bad to have such an abundent energy source, should it even exist. I say that it's the only chance we have to avoid extinction.

I don't believe in any of these perpetual motion machine ideas, but there are possible technologies out there that could supply a good deal of energy such as fusion. If we don't get a chance to develop these technologies, then we're gone.

[MattSavinar_gst1]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Chichis', 'I')f the human race wants to survive, it has to leave the planet at some point. All of human civilization has developed during a time of extremely ideal conditions. No large meteors, no large amounts of volcanic activity, no pole shifts, and no large temperature changes. This isn't going to last forever.

If we don't get our eggs out of this single basket before we lose the capability to do so, then we've got no chance. Matt argues that it would be bad to have such an abundent energy source, should it even exist. I say that it's the only chance we have to avoid extinction.

I don't believe in any of these perpetual motion machine ideas, but there are possible technologies out there that could supply a good deal of energy such as fusion. If we don't get a chance to develop these technologies, then we're gone.

[OilBurner]

Excellent. I had a really, really bad weekend and I come back to find more flame wars involving dearest Matt and a thread where people actually take free energy seriously. Cool.
I thought nothing would bring a smile to my face today, but I was wrong. :D

Back on topic though. If we did have free energy (*cough* *cough* bullsh..*cough*), then there is no limits (by definition) to what we could acheive and we could build space arks to go and terraform Mars. Then we could shift 1/2 the population to Mars and give ourselves another 100 years to build a whole artificial planet for more growth. Blah-de-blah. That's all predictable enough.

The fact that is so far fetched just shows how silly the initial concept is. Free energy is the modern equivilent of the Holy Grail, giving infinite life to all of mankind. If that doesn't sound like a fairy story then I don't know what does.

The fact that we haven't even managed to send a person to Mars yet and it's been 35 years since we managed to send someone next door to the Moon, shows we can realisitically dismiss ideas about getting out of here anytime soon. In desperation, we may cling to an idea that we will find a magic solution that will somehow break the cycle of diminishing returns we currently face. Let's face it, there's no such thing as a free lunch, especially in physics (to re-quote the best). I say, get used it and work to find more realistic solutions to our current problems. As my Dad is fond of saying "you don't get something for nothing".

Perhaps someone will come along and claim to have invented free money? Look at all this money I can print and we get zero inflation..we're all millionaires...
Then we'll have free eating. I can eat all day long and not put on a pound of weight..we're all Brad Pitt/Jen Aniston..
Quickly followed by free land..we can feed and house a billion people from just 1 acre of land these days..let's all pro-create like little furry mammals..

Spot the problems with these ideas?

[Hydro]

LOL! Yes Matt, the world is ending, and you're the prophecy while everyone else is sleeping.

I don't think so. With each passing year, you look more and more like a moron. In fact I noticed you quickly abandoned your prediction that 2000 was already the peak. Hmmmmm not so sure about yourself, are you?

{ SNIP!!! - Removed long quote that merely repeated entire topic as seen above - just stick to keeping the context of the reply please - OilBurner}

[OilBurner]

Hydro, I believe Matt is more likely to be a Prophet than a prophecy or the fulfilment thereof.
Small point, although I knew what you meant.

Crucially though - I thought this topic was about "free energy" and not whether or not Matt happens to be a moron in your subjective opinion?
Unless you feel you know better than that?

Please avoid these kind of ad hominem attacks or else we'll be headed for the HOF before we know it.

[Chichis]

I'm coming from the other side of it. I'm saying that if we want to survive, as a species, we need to keep our civilization as it is for a bit longer. In order to do this, we need to find another source of energy.

From an evolutionary standpoint, isn't the whole point to survive? There 0% probability of surviving for very long (on a geological timescale) if we don't diversify and get some people off the planet. When I say this, I don't mean a mass exodus, I mean a colanization. This isn't a solution to our environmental woes or whatever other problems befall us, it's just a way to ensure our survival.

[Turtleman]

Greetings everyone! I'm new to this site, but not to the so-called field of free energy. And despite being an EE and inventor for over 30 years, I continue to search for "credible" evidence of overunity devices. It's terribly exciting to ponder the possibilities and to become enamored with each new wonderful claim. Yet as far as I've been able to determine, they ALL FAIL to deliver! Nonetheless, I continue to look, experiment, and hope.

Anyway, my question is: Has anyone actually seen a REAL overunity or free energy device? I don't need to hear about someone's "measurements" of more energy out than in. Likewise, citing patents is considerably less than useless. I know, I have two. However, a self-sustaining device, with or without the ability to power something else, would be a great first step toward real proof.

Anyone

[OilBurner]

I expect you might have quite a wait, Turtleman!

[Guest]

Hi there.

This is my first post, and I'd like to say hello to you all. This is an absolutely fascinating, intelligent board - filled with interesting people. I've only been researching peak oil for the last month or so, but already feel grounded in the basics.

I'm hoping someone can provide a viewpoint on the device found on this site:

www.lutec.com.au

On the face of it, it appears to be a viable free energy device awaiting patents and distributors... if only it were that simple!

Could someone please explain to me the ramifications of such a product being widely distributed, and its possible impact on the peak oil dilemma?

Thanks guys.