PeakOil is You
The Food Stamp Thread (merged)
Re: Economic Recovery? 43,000,000 On Food Stamps
by deMolay » Wed 24 Nov 2010, 01:14:27
As usual no body would answer the question. Especially Ludi. Just saying.
"We Are All Travellers, From The Sweet Grass To The Packing House, From Birth To Death, We Wander Between The Two Eternities". An Old Cowboy.
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Re: Economic Recovery? 43,000,000 On Food Stamps
by Livewire713 » Wed 24 Nov 2010, 01:30:07
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('deMolay', 'A')s usual no body would answer the question. Especially Ludi. Just saying.
Why would you quit working? So you can join the starving? Even if you were taxed that high I think that option is better then being broke and starving. It might be like it is in China. Basically you live at your job and you get everything from your employer. If your lucky you have a little left over at the end of the month to send to the family.
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Re: Economic Recovery? 43,000,000 On Food Stamps
by diemos » Wed 24 Nov 2010, 01:34:27
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('deMolay', 'A')s usual no body would answer the question. Especially Ludi. Just saying.
Okay. A flat 20% tax on all earned and unearned income would provide enough money to give every legal adult american 10K/year. I would be more than satisfied with that level of social transfer.
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Re: Economic Recovery? 43,000,000 On Food Stamps
by Oakley » Wed 24 Nov 2010, 03:06:02
It is sad to say that we live by a system of theft. Those in power rig the economy so that most of the wealth goes to government and special interest; this creates an abnormally high level of poverty and makes life difficult for those who manage to barely escape poverty. And then those in power squeeze the middle class more by taking enough from them to pass out to those in poverty, preventing revolt temporarily. The system certainly is not freedom; it can better be described as one big scam.
The answer is not more welfare and more government direction of the economy. It is government direction of the economy in the first place that created this mess. The legitimate function of government is to protect freedom and free markets, not to rig markets with things like the Federal Reserve money scam and the FDA price fixing scam. The issue of government welfare for those in poverty would become inconsequential if the government was not in the business of creating poverty in the first place.
I think most of us who have decent human values want to do away with human suffering imposed on us by political arrangements. We surely differ on how to go about reaching this goal, which is unfortunate because ultimately it is we who will suffer the most from the social chaos and violence as this cruel system crumbles, and we enter a three way battle between those in power, those who want greater government take over, and those who want freedom.
The answer is not more welfare and more government direction of the economy. It is government direction of the economy in the first place that created this mess. The legitimate function of government is to protect freedom and free markets, not to rig markets with things like the Federal Reserve money scam and the FDA price fixing scam. The issue of government welfare for those in poverty would become inconsequential if the government was not in the business of creating poverty in the first place.
I think most of us who have decent human values want to do away with human suffering imposed on us by political arrangements. We surely differ on how to go about reaching this goal, which is unfortunate because ultimately it is we who will suffer the most from the social chaos and violence as this cruel system crumbles, and we enter a three way battle between those in power, those who want greater government take over, and those who want freedom.
"The deepest sin against the human mind is to believe things without evidence" Thomas H Huxley
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Re: Economic Recovery? 43,000,000 On Food Stamps
by Novus » Wed 24 Nov 2010, 05:21:59
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('deMolay', 'A')s usual no body would answer the question. Especially Ludi. Just saying.
Nobody answered your question because your question is economic gibberish not founded in reality. You present a false dilemma that exists purely in your mind based on preconceived notions that are false to begin with. We already have 100M+ living off of transfer payments such as SS, welfare, and foodstamps. The total US employed workforce is only about 150M. That means the other 150M is living off the work of the employed population someway or another. Of those that do work only about 1/3rd of the do anything of any real value. By real value I mean in the work of producing something such as food, energy, infrastructure, shelter or vital service such as medical. The false dilemma is that we have to keep up BAU of the suburban consumerist lifestyle as presented by Hollywood on TV. If all we need is food, shelter, energy, and health care then 50M working would easily provide enough sustenance to provide for the other 250M+. In fact it would be better that way and drop the madness that is consumerism that demands every able bodied person destroy the environment as fast as they can or they don't get fed.
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Re: Economic Recovery? 43,000,000 On Food Stamps
by Pretorian » Wed 24 Nov 2010, 05:56:47
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Novus', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('deMolay', ' ')Of those that do work only about 1/3rd of the do anything of any real value. By real value I mean in the work of producing something such as food, energy, infrastructure, shelter or vital service such as medical.
1/3rd? You've been really generos here. May be if agriculture, mining, manufacture employ a lot of people. Surely not the case in US.
Furthermore, even if 1/3rd thing is right, how many people would be really needed to be working in order to provide for themselves, this 1/3rd of a workforce, and members of their families, with basic things that theyneed ?
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Only one third doing really useful work??? That's like the stat. that each American farmer feeds 125 people or what ever the number is now. Sure his farm produces that much food but he doesn't do it alone. He doesn't build his own tractors from iron he digs up in the back forty, and he doesn't go to the GOM and pump oil up from two miles down and refine it into diesel and fertilizer in the shed behind the hog barn. It's a team or group effort and the dollars say what is and what isn't useful. Even those Hollywood people making movies are useful because without them there would be nothing on the satellite TV to keep the farmer from going bonkers while he waits for the corn to grow. 
