[Heineken]

Falser, there are some very bad, and large, areas of NW that as bad as or worse than anything in SE. East of 16th Street and north of U Street, watch out. Logan Circle used to be terrible, but I guess it's been yuppieized.

Don't forget NE. It's a big part of DC and vies with SE as the worst.

I think that a lot of white people who live in DC haven't even seen most of it.

Some of what you say is definitely true---there's been "upscaling" in some areas and this has perhaps reduced the danger in those areas. But the zones of poverty are still there and will act as seeds of violence. You can be sure the poor DCers resent the rich pockets. I know I did.

Capital Hill has a lot of money too, brushing shoulders with poverty, and it's notoriously dangerous.

I don't think you can put $500,000 efficiencies in some neighborhoods and say it's safe now. The vast black underclass is still there in DC and the disparities in wealth must be worse than ever.

I made my final getaway (to a small VA farm I'd had an ownership interest in since 1983) in 2001 and plan never to return to DC even to visit. I got sick of the place, although it certainly had its points.

[falser]

Maybe I'm not adventurous enough and haven't seen the worst parts, I know there are pockets of bad places. Some places that look like they used to be the slums of DC (east of Dupont/Logan) are indeed becoming 'yuppyized' - I wouldn't be able to afford living there anymore. That's one of the reasons I moved to Northern Virgina - more available housing in relatively safe neighborhoods.

[GreyZone]

I lived in the DC area for years and a major consideration for families that can afford it is quality of schools. The DC public schools performed horrendously in the 1980s. I'd bet they still do.

So it's not just crime but for many families the quality of the schools means a great deal too. Bringing families back in requires schools that perform well in educating students and reducing crime to acceptable levels (comparable to the suburbs).

[frankthetank]

A while back (maybe early summer) there was a 60 Minutes episode about the ghettos of DC. I was shocked @ the amt of crime. The show followed a guy trying to help the youngsters that live in the ghetto.

They had a great view of the capitol building from a really ghetto neighborhood. Made you think of the great disparity present in this country (probably worse in bigger cities then areas such as i live).

[ALBY]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EnemyCombatant', ' ')As a matter of fact, young white liberals are moving into these neighborhoods . And they have no problems with their 'older and poorer' black neighbors.

[Tyler_JC]

My grandmother lives in a beautiful gentrified apartment complex in Alexandria, minutes from DC.

But she wouldn't dare even considering living inside the city itself. It's just too dangerous. You can walk 6 blocks from the Washington Monument and end up in what feels like a third world ghetto.

In terms of violent crime, DC is certainly one of the worst cities in the United States. White Flight is a major reason for this. When middle class families move out, the schools fall apart, and the locals suffer. If the locals suffer for long enough, the area will become a hotbed of crime and unrest.

It would not surprise me to see outright civil insurrection in the city PP. Granted, the Feds would be quick to stop the riots (for several extremely obvious reasons ).

I find it amazing to hear about how everyone is going to walk right back into the cities, holding hands with the locals as we move into a post carbon world. LMAO. I wouldn't move into DC now even if you gave me a free house! I wouldn't even dream of moving into an even poorer, more crowded DC in the future.

"Going back to the cities" will be extremely freaking unpopular if it means having to mingle with the rapists and murderers. If crime is only going to get worse in the future, moving back into some of America's worst cities (Detroit anyone?) is not going to happen voluntarily. The economy will have to nearly completely fall apart before most suburbanites abandon their 1/4 acre lawn to live in a 2 bedroom apartment in the slums.

But what do I know?

[karina]

Heineken, you are absolutely correct. My friend, who lives in an apartment on the north side of U street and half a block east from 16th street, was almost broken in half a year ago while he was sleeping at 5 o'clock AM. Another friend owns a house in the same neighborhood. The house next to his house was broken in three years ago and three people living in the house were stabbed to death. Half a year ago while my friends were drinking in a bar in the neighborhood, they saw somebody stabbing a guy in front of them. I myself witnessed shootings in Adams Morgan twice.

[Daculling]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', '"')White flight" is and has always been the defining American cultural paradigm.

[BabyPeanut]

I wonder if it's possible to convert the 2.3 million square feet of brand new convention center into usable living space?

You wonder why we are going deeper and deeper into debt while those turkeys build three-block-long mostly-useless buildings.

[Heineken]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('karina', 'H')eineken, you are absolutely correct. My friend, who lives in an apartment on the north side of U street and half a block east from 16th street, was almost broken in half a year ago while he was sleeping at 5 o'clock AM. Another friend owns a house in the same neighborhood. The house next to his house was broken in three years ago and three people living in the house were stabbed to death. Half a year ago while my friends were drinking in a bar in the neighborhood, they saw somebody stabbing a guy in front of them. I myself witnessed shootings in Adams Morgan twice.

[Heineken]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BabyPeanut', 'I') wonder if it's possible to convert the 2.3 million square feet of brand new convention center into usable living space?

You wonder why we are going deeper and deeper into debt while those turkeys build three-block-long mostly-useless buildings.

[BabyPeanut]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Heineken', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BabyPeanut', 'I') wonder if it's possible to convert the 2.3 million square feet of brand new convention center into usable living space?

You wonder why we are going deeper and deeper into debt while those turkeys build three-block-long mostly-useless buildings.

[formandfile]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('GreyZone', '
')So it's not just crime but for many families the quality of the schools means a great deal too. Bringing families back in requires schools that perform well in educating students and reducing crime to acceptable levels (comparable to the suburbs).

[Heineken]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BabyPeanut', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Heineken', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BabyPeanut', 'I') wonder if it's possible to convert the 2.3 million square feet of brand new convention center into usable living space?

You wonder why we are going deeper and deeper into debt while those turkeys build three-block-long mostly-useless buildings.

[dinopello]

A good site to check out happening in DC living

http://www.dclofts.com/

I'm surprised by most of the comments here. I've been to just about every metro stop in DC proper and the vast majority are safe (based on my definition) and improving. The problem (and it is major) is affordable middle-class housing. Anything that is built new, or rennovated is immediately outside the range that an average person can afford.

[Heineken]

Huge tracts of DC are nowhere near Metro stop. Naturally the areas around most of the Metro stops are relatively safe (but not all the areas, mind you).

[BabyPeanut]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dinopello', 'A') good site to check out happening in DC living

http://www.dclofts.com/

[Indiantiger]

Great thread. One side mote to this discussion is that I have been amazed at how everyone has been brainwashed in the past 6-7 years of taking all of their "monthly payments" and putting them into your mortgage for a smaller payment, allowing you to free up cash to pay for more stuff.

I know from personal expereience that most folks living in Exurbia have $X month in income and 99%*X in expenses. A 50% rise in commuting expesnes and home heating bills will kill them. At first they will cut back on capital expenses and dinners out, they they will switch to lower cost food from the grocery store, then the misses will take a part time job, and then they will run out of places to cut. $60K a year from the breadwinner just ain't gonna stretch for those folks in Exurbia.

You are certainly going to have Hysteria.

[Byron100]

The topic of daily commuting is one reason why I sometimes wish Peak Oil would happen right now. I can think of few worse things to do with my time than to sit in *&#@*&^ traffic going to and from my job. I live 4.6 miles from where I work, and I consider that too far of a commute. 25 minutes in a car every day is 25 minutes I wish I was doing anything, just anything else other than being trapped in my car. I wish I lived close enough so I didn't have to drive at all, and indeed that is one of my great goals in life to live and work within a half mile (or a mile at the very most) of each other, which I hope to arrange once I land a long-term, steady job in a place where I want to grow old in.

Why people here in Atlanta, GA put themselves through utter hell of 1hr-plus (each way!!) commutes on glacial freeways is utterly and totally beyond me. If everyone hated traffic as much as I did, I can *guarantee* there would be a total revolution against our car-dominated culture. If 100% of all private automobiles were to disappear tomorrow (leaving the rest of infrastructure intact), I would be dancin' in the streets for about 24 hours straight...I'd be that happy. But like my best friend like to tell me, in your dreams baby...it ain't gonna happen. But dammit, it sure is nice to fantasize...