[frankthetank]

Everyone who works on a Falcon probably makes a pretty decent income, so yeah...this is probably really stupid.

I swear its a huge conspiracy to destroy our entire economy...

[Jotapay]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('StargazerNE', 'I')'ve been lurking on peakoil.com for the last few years, but I have never posted until now.

The reason I'm posting now is to let everyone know that business aviation is a big industry in the U.S. It is an industry that employs a lot of people. I'll use the company I work for as an example. I work for a "small" family-owned operation that services/maintains/modifies business aircraft. My company employs people in the following fields: accounting, human resources, maintenance (aircraft mechanics, interior specialists, cabinet specialists, upholstery specialists, paint specialists), engineering, marketing, non-destructive testing, electronics/avionics, PMA (parts production), design, computer applications, professional development, and the list goes on.

On Tuesday of this week, my company announced Phase 2 of it's Recession Plan: Reduction of salary for non-production employees, reduction of hours for production employees, and elimination of 401k matching.

Do you know what I've walked by 5 days a week for the last eight months?

A Dassault Aviation Falcon 7X Jet.

My company has a contract with Dassault Aviation to finish the jets. We currently have two of them in one of our hangars. The cancelled jet from Citigroup adversely affects myself and all those people around me.

I think it is important to point out that my company employs 1,400 people in a small midwestern city of 210,000. Layoffs would definitely hurt our local economy. This bad attitude that is developing about companies and their corporate jets could cost a lot of people their jobs throughout the country.

Just something to think about when you hear somebody talk about the big boys and their toys (jets).

[bratticus]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('StargazerNE', 'M')y company has a contract with Dassault Aviation to finish the jets. We currently have two of them in one of our hangars. The cancelled jet from Citigroup adversely affects myself and all those people around me.

[phaster]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jotapay', 'J')oe Six Pack has a lot to say about that subject. Listen to his first 'point'.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42IUg2NXwoU

Warning: he certainly feels comfortable with using expletives, so keep the volume down with kids/coworkers around.

[Jotapay]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('phaster', '
')Watching the video, I can understand the frustration of joe "six pack" but I could not notice in the back ground there was what appeared to be a flat screen TV of some sort.

[phaster]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jotapay', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('phaster', '
')Watching the video, I can understand the frustration of joe "six pack" but I could not notice in the back ground there was what appeared to be a flat screen TV of some sort.

[StargazerNE]

Let me say that I understand all the negative views concerning Citigroup buying a $50 million jet after receiving billions from the government. I actually have the same negative opinions. The purpose of my post was to get people to think about the negative effects this will have on the economy. I used my situation to help illustrate this.

Now I know all the effects peak oil will have on the aviation industry as a whole. I know aviation (as we currently know it) is doomed. That is why I'm graduating next summer with a degree in the medical field.

I just think the situation is kinda ironic. Spending money is what keeps our economy running (I'm not saying that's right). The goverment WANTS people to spend money to get the economy back on track. Now they are telling these companies to get rid of their jets/not buy jets (causing people in the aviation field to lose their jobs) at the same time they are trying to create jobs and bolster the economy.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'H')ere's something you should try: hold your breath while thinking "my oxygen does not come from factories, I am completely dependent on nature for my existence, yet I feel it is OK for me to destroy nature in order to "make a living". Don't breath again until you really, truly accept your place on the food chain.

[ThatGirl22]

StargazerNE I hear your points loud and clear and I think it was very well said. True, Jets may be "killing the environment" or whatever was said... but yeah, we're all doing it. And I don't know any nature lover that hasn't flown once or twice in their life. Oh well enough said...

But to everyone else... I would like to defend the "people that work on the Falcon 7X". No, just because someone works on this aircraft does NOT mean they make a wonderful salary. Geez, my husband works for a "small mid- western company" as well, and just because he works on corporate jets does NOT mean he gets paid like the people who own them for crying out loud! He makes no more than an average diesel mechanic, car mechanic.... etc... it's definitely not a glorified salary that's for sure. My husband's company too had to cut hours and they are talking pay cuts, trying to reduce costs on benefits, not matching 401k.... hiring freeze... you name it. And it sucks. They are going to be very affected by this because they were really relying on the 7X program.

Bratticus.. I don't think it needed to go so far as to say that people in the field should have thought about it before they entered it. Negatives can be found in pretty much any line of work one would choose to go in to. But you know... those in the Aviation Industry are not idiots, it takes a lot of work even to be a mechanic in that field. Some go the college route, but many get their experience in the military, where they gained the skills and knowledge to pass a test and get their FAA license, while at the same time defending your right to be a judgmental tree-hugger. I am really curious to know where exactly you are on the "food chain" and how you get off talking to someone like that just because they work in aviation?

[bratticus]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('StargazerNE', 'I')f you use any type of technology (home heating, transportation, communication, entertainment, etc.), you are just as guilty for your part in destroying nature as anyone else. Just because you don't drive an SUV or own a McMansion, doesn't mean you don't play your part in the grand scheme of raping our world. EVERYTHING we do has an adverse effect on the environment. Some of us are just more efficient at it than others.

[Snowrunner]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('StargazerNE', 'I') just think the situation is kinda ironic. Spending money is what keeps our economy running (I'm not saying that's right). The goverment WANTS people to spend money to get the economy back on track. Now they are telling these companies to get rid of their jets/not buy jets (causing people in the aviation field to lose their jobs) at the same time they are trying to create jobs and bolster the economy.

[StargazerNE]

bratticus wrote:
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')hank you for damning yourself.

Don't expect any sympathy from me for your inability to profit from the sale of a jet to the Citigroup banksters.

[phaster]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', '
')
So in hard times, no, we really do not need the rich to save the economy by living the high life. It would be more effective to distribute the wealth downwards. send out stiumulus checks to the poorest of the poor.

The poor would actually spend every last red cent, which would create and support jobs. The poor will not plow the money into the markets and create bubbles.

[Ferretlover]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '[')b]U.S. government boosts stake in Citigroup Deal gives government up to 40 percent stake in struggling bank msnbc.com news services updated 16 minutes ago:
WASHINGTON - Citigroup Inc. said Friday it reached a deal that will give the government up to a 36 percent stake in the struggling bank.
The government, along with other private investors, will convert some of their preferred stock in Citi to common shares.
Citi will offer to exchange up to $27.5 billion of its existing preferred stock held by private investors at a conversion price of $3.25 per share, a 32 percent premium over Thursday’s closing price of $2.46. The government will match up to $25 billion of preferred stock it currently owns for conversion at the same price. …

[bodigami]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('StargazerNE', '[')b]bratticus wrote:
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')hank you for damning yourself.

Don't expect any sympathy from me for your inability to profit from the sale of a jet to the Citigroup banksters.

[Voice_du_More]

Somehow I thought Bilbo had killed all the trolls around here. "My sored is glowin' it is. Day mus be okes aroun!'"

Citi-group and all of the other major card companies were warned five years ago or morre that their credit card practices were unethical. Now that the Lord of heaven has yanked their chain back towards reality they all need hand-outs and are oh so eager to show mercy. If the lesson of mercy is truly learned then keep ing them in business is a long-term good. If not, then as soon as their man-parts are no longer over the fire they will start charging 33% percent interest on a user cost of $20 in late fees again and well...

someday love will find you, break those chains that bind you,...

unfortunately when we touch and go our separate ways one of us is going off into the light and the other into the darkness.

The choice is still yours, the sun is still setting.

[Sixstrings]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '[')b]After all those losses and bailouts, rank-and-file employees of Citigroup are getting some good news: their salaries are going up.
The troubled banking giant, which to many symbolizes the troubles in the nation’s financial industry, intends to raise workers’ base salaries by as much as 50 percent this year to offset smaller annual bonuses, according to people with direct knowledge of the plan.

The shift means that most Citigroup employees will make as much money as they did in 2008, although some might earn more and others less. The company also plans to award millions of new stock options to employees in an effort to retain workers and neutralize a precipitous drop in the value of their stock holdings.

Like Citigroup [C 3.01 0.01 (+0.33%) ], financial companies like Bank of America [BAC 12.23 0.29 (+2.43%) ] and Morgan Stanley [MS 27.70 1.07 (+4.02%) ] are raising employees’ base salaries in an attempt to shift attention away from bonuses. So are banks like UBS and other European competitors.

The Citigroup proposals, discussed internally this week, present a crucial test for the Obama administration, which has vowed to rein in runaway compensation at companies that have received large taxpayer-financed bailouts. Citigroup has gotten not one but two rescues from Washington. This month, the government assumed a 34 percent stake in the company, whose share price has plunged nearly 84 percent in the last year.

Despite Washington’s new role at Citigroup, and public anger over big paydays on Wall Street, administration officials have little power to prevent the company and others in the industry from raising salaries for rank-and-file employees. Kenneth R. Feinberg, the administration’s new “pay czar,” has the authority to set compensation for only the top 100 employees at troubled companies. The rest — which at Citigroup, means fewer than 300,000 people — can be paid as executives see fit, provided any increase does not rank them among the 100 most highly paid workers.

Outsize pay on Wall Street, particularly the industry’s bonus culture, is widely seen as having encouraged the risk-taking that led to the gravest financial crisis since the Depression. But industrywide, total compensation is expected to rise 20 to 30 percent this year, approximately to the levels of 2005, before the crisis broke out, according to Johnson Associates, a compensation consulting firm. Total industry pay would still be below the record levels of 2007, but only a bit.

Indeed, despite the simmering anger over Wall Street pay, some of the 10 big banks that repaid their federal aid this month — a big step toward disentangling themselves from the government — are gearing up to pay outsize bonuses. For many, profits are up, despite the troubled economy. On Monday, Goldman Sachs, which returned $10 billion of bailout funds, denied reports that it planned to pay out the highest bonuses in its 140-year history.

Mr. Feinberg, the “special master for compensation,” is the person who ensures that companies receiving federal bailout funds are abiding by executive pay guidelines. This week, Mr. Feinberg, who oversaw the federal government’s compensation fund for victims of the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, held introductory meetings with Citigroup executives and their counterparts at several other companies that have received two federal bailouts. He will start reviewing pay packages for the 25 highest-paid employees, as well as compensation formulas for the next 75, in the next two months. He declined to comment on Tuesday.

“You can say it is outrageous,” said Alan Johnson, the president of the firm. “But maybe it’s a little like the canary in the mine, and you say that things are getting better.”

For months, Citigroup executives have sought guidance from the Treasury Department about how to alter compensation. But after reviewing the new rules, the bank determined it did not need Mr. Feinberg or other government officials to sign off on pay for the rank and file. While Mr. Feinberg can request information on the pay polices at financial companies that have received two federal bailouts, the companies can reject his guidance.

Citigroup executives are so eager to keep employees from fleeing, that in some cases, they are offering them guaranteed pay contracts. Managers began notifying bank employees of the proposed changes this week. They could take effect shortly.

For some Citigroup investment bankers and traders, the changes could mean salary increases of as much as 50 percent, depending on their position. Legal and risk management employees, as well as those in the credit card and consumer banking units, whose pay is typically skewed toward salary, rather than bonuses, are expected to receive smaller increases. Citigroup executives said the changes were aimed at retaining employees. Some Citigroup workers have already left for small, boutique investment banks or large rivals that are not so beholden to the government.

Citigroup officials declined to discuss the issue on the record, given its sensitive nature. But they said that the changes would bring the bank’s compensation plan in line with the widespread view on Wall Street that bonuses were not one-time payouts, but rather a form of deferred salary. They said the new system would enable them to adjust bonuses more sharply to reflect employees’ performance.

Stephen Cohen, a Citigroup spokesman, said that any changes would be intended to adjust the balance between salaries, which are fixed, and bonuses, which vary from year to year.

Citigroup also plans to introduce a new stock option program later this year. Under the plan, it will award employees one stock option for every share of restricted stock they have accumulated. The program could open the floodgates for the release of tens of millions of stock options. It is unclear what the strike price will be. But the hope is that the options program will give employees another incentive to stay and make it more expensive for rivals to make competing offers.
http://www.cnbc.com/id/31514432

[Minvaren]

...but they're shedding assets to raise cash? This makes absolutely no sense.

[ian807]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', 'S')upposedly, these big raises are "necessary to retain talent." Well, where's all that talent leaving to? Are banskters emigrating to other countries?

[ColossalContrarian]

It sounds to me like they’re retaining “talent” because if the “talent” is let go they might share all the horrible corruption going on in the world’s biggest banking institutions.

Kinda like “give me more money or I’ll go to the media…”

[Roy]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'S')upposedly, these big raises are "necessary to retain talent.