[americandream]

Hence you NEED to pay attention to what goes on around you. The sort of attention that avoids the current multi-trillion debacle your country has landed the rest of us in whilst you lot continue dozing away in the land of free market fairies.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('americandream', '
')And you know what my politcal views are. I've aired them frequently enough.

[americandream]

If we had this and if we had that, I am sure we would avoid ourselves a great deal of pain and unnecessary subsidies of the rich but then, pigs would fly and virgin births would be the order of the day.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', 'W')hen it comes to energy, the free market is an efficient means of calculating EROI.

[Sixstrings]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'M')arket based ingenuity! The God of the Market will save us!

The Church of The Market!

[Graeme]

Peak oil just doom and gloom

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'M')any years ago, I thought oil reserves were a geological fact. Then I figured out they are an economic fact. Before someone tells you what their reserves are you have to tell them what price of oil you are assuming. When or if oil becomes sufficiently expensive, the alternatives will become more economic. We will demand less oil. As long as it is market priced we simply can't run out.

Addressing Mr. Foster's broader ongoing thesis, that human psychology seems to have a need for doom and gloom, and to do penance for our sins, I invite all of us who look around. If you are as old as I am you remember, with the evidence of your senses, that things are better now than they used to be. Lakes and rivers are cleaner, the air is cleaner, people live longer and better.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Graeme', ' ')Lakes and rivers are cleaner, the air is cleaner,

[Graeme]

China just happens to be one of the few countries in the world who starting a massive reforestation project.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Graeme', '[')url=http://news.discovery.com/earth/china-gives-birth-to-giant-new-forests.html]China[/url] just happens to be one of the few countries in the world who starting a massive reforestation project.

[sparky]

.
the article get too close to the bone for comfort

"One of the intriguing aspects of the doomster mindset is that the more its dark predictions fail too materialize, the more those in its grip insist that The Coming Collapse is going to be all the more terrible "

Since I am fearful of widespread collapse and / or wars both civil and foreign , this definitely made me smile
It's easy with a bit of critical introspection to feel in myself the urge to filter news
agreeable to my mind set .

After all , I lived through a few scares stories
-imminent nuclear Armageddon in the sixties ,
-widespread famines , massive pollution in the seventies
-nuclear power plants going bang in the eighties
-Muslims ending secular Western civilization as we know it
-the great depression ( still ongoing )

This of course didn't happen as of today , pheew
So is everything rosy ? hardly .
we are hooked on cheap energy , it is the only thing keeping the malls open
the houses affordable and the pensions paid

less than a desire to be proven right , smiling contentedly amongst the falling pillars
I have the deep founded certainty that our present lifestyle has a limited future
whatever happen afterward will have a lot to do with blind luck , good leadership and collective cohesion .

some places will be more or less OK , of course but based on my judgment of human nature , frustration , selfishness, anger and plain bone-headedness
will create troubles ,people hate seeing their standard of living sharply reduced

after all when normal life is disturbed the first thing to happen is widespread looting,
also called " basic distributive democracy "
an angry man is a police problem .. a million angry men is an army problem

.

[aldente]

There is a difference between a church and a circus.

[rangerone314]

People gave Ronald Reagan credit for the USSR toppling, I wonder who will take credit for when the USA topples?

[timmac]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rangerone314', 'P')eople gave Ronald Reagan credit for the USSR toppling, I wonder who will take credit for when the USA topples?

[Revi]

I think that we are becoming a kind of a cult, but based in reality. Of course reality is agreed perception.

Here's the Archdruid report about exactly this subject. He's a great writer and understands peak oil:

http://thearchdruidreport.blogspot.com/

[Roy]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I') wonder who will take credit for when the USA topples?

[aldente]

somewhat random, nevertheless of high value:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHOLexgK ... re=related

[Revi]

I'm glad someone bumped this thread. We are like a church, or maybe should become one. The only way to drag the vast majority of people along is to become like a religion. We need to start to conserve, and people won't do it unless there is some better world awaiting. Our culture drags us along. Before we know it we're commuting an hour each way, living in a house that requires both heating and cooling and taking vacations by jet to farwaway places. It's just the way it is. Unless you are Amish or something, you are using vast amounts of oil in your daily life. That's why we need a religion. People will do something about their energy consumption if there is a religious reason, I'll bet. What do you think?

[EXSLOPER]

"PO Theorists fail -- or more precisely refuse -- to grasp that the best method of dealing with any form of commercial scarcity is market-based ingenuity, not some weird combination of Big Brother and Hippie co-ops."

Can anyone show me an alternative to the "market" that is shown to work and ia applicable to the real world in terms of scale and complexity?
The market with all it's flaws is about all we have available to drive changes in global behaviour. Some may not like the market because there are winners and losers when resources get scarce but that's the reality of our world... it's not fair and no amount of social tinkering is going to change that.

In the end we can all try to do our little part, try to create a local community, live a low impact lifestyle etc. The outcome of P.O will depend on a combination of factors of which I think luck will have the greatest influence...the issue is too big with too many complexities to make an accurate forcast of what happens next during this evolving process.

[Lore]

Of course! You have to read the fine print and disclaimer if ever you accept the doctrine of Peak Oil. Specifically, “individual results may vary”.

[Pops]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EXSLOPER', 'C')an anyone show me an alternative to the "market" that is shown to work and ia applicable to the real world in terms of scale and complexity?

[mos6507]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Revi', 'W')hat do you think?