[AdTheNad]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Oakley', 'Y')ou have a right to life, liberty and property. This does not mean that others are required to give things to you. It is not a right of yours to be given food, medical care, a job; it is a right of yours that nobody can deny you your own acquisition of these things.

[Oakley]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ibon', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Oakley', '
')
As I have pointed out before, we are on the road to revolution, just as we were before the 1775 Revolution and the 1861 Civil War.

[Oakley]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AdTheNad', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Oakley', 'Y')ou have a right to life, liberty and property. This does not mean that others are required to give things to you. It is not a right of yours to be given food, medical care, a job; it is a right of yours that nobody can deny you your own acquisition of these things.

[Duende]

A few of you disagree between the role of government and corporations in our demise. I'd like to remind you that it is a moot point considering the 'revolving door' that many of our corporate and government 'leaders' spend their time passing through.

[Cog]

If you signed up for a student loan and borrowed 100k for a degree in sociology or underwater basket weaving and can't figure out why you can't get a job, it will be hard to explain it to you. In my life, I've paid off two student loans, one for my BS and one for my masters. It was difficult to do but I didn't ask anyone to bail me out of what was clearly stated on the loan documents.

If the government wants to make those type loans dischargeable under bankruptcy law or to mandate a lower interest rate for them, I have no issues with that.

But if you signed on the dotted line without doing the math on the payoff, then you are an idiot who deserves to be a debt slave.

[Duende]

Cog wrote:
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')f you signed up for a student loan and borrowed 100k for a degree in sociology or underwater basket weaving and can't figure out why you can't get a job, it will be hard to explain it to you. In my life, I've paid off two student loans, one for my BS and one for my masters. It was difficult to do but I didn't ask anyone to bail me out of what was clearly stated on the loan documents.

If the government wants to make those type loans dischargeable under bankruptcy law or to mandate a lower interest rate for them, I have no issues with that.

But if you signed on the dotted line without doing the math on the payoff, then you are an idiot who deserves to be a debt slave.

[Cog]

Part of the reason for the massive increase in tuition is the overuse of student loans. Not everyone needs to go to Harvard. Also going to a community college your first two years saves a lot of money towards a four year degree. Do you really need to take English 101 at a university?

I also worked a part-time job all through my college years to cut down on the amounts I would have to borrow. I can't help it if kids can't do math but their parents don't have an excuse not to educate their kids to the clear dangers of excessive student loans.

[Sixstrings]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cog', 'P')art of the reason for the massive increase in tuition is the overuse of student loans.

[Bruce_S]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cog', '
')But if you signed on the dotted line without doing the math on the payoff, then you are an idiot who deserves to be a debt slave.

[vision-master]

This movement will continue to grow.

'you ain't seen nothing yet'

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cog', 'P')art of the reason for the massive increase in tuition is the overuse of student loans.

[Novus]

Problem is the US isn't even Capitalist anymore. I want to restore Capitalism not abolish it. What we live in a Robin hood in reverse state. Tax the poor to fatten the rich. That was what TARP was. If not for the trillion dollar government bailout Wall Street would have met the reaper in Sept 2008. Their ponsi schemes would have all imploded in on themselves and all these billionaires would be penniless today if natural market capitalism was allowed to take place. But NO the government interfered and bailed them out. Socialize the costs but privatize the profits is the new normal in America. TARP in reality was act of treason against the constitution. It was not a campaign issue, the people never voted on it, it was never debated in congress, there was no consensus or conversation with the public ever built to get it passed. The TARP bailout was not for the people, by the people, of the people but was passed in spite of the people by the elite, the powerful, and the connected. That is not democracy, that is a Coup d'etat by the new Royalists of Wall Street. We are but mere subjects to the neo aristocracy that comes from Wall street. Wall Street needs to be overthrown and Republic restored to Democracy.


We can start by reenacting the Glass Steagal act which would make all those ponsi schemes illegal and break up the too big to fail banks. Afterwords have the SEC start enforcing all existing laws and then have the attorney general prosecute all the offenders and throw them in jail. Those convicted of crimes would forfeit their billions which would be returned to the US treasury. Then we need to reverse the Supreme Court Decision that made corporations equal to people. Corporations are not people. You cannot put a corporation in jail if they commit a crime. All you can do is sue them for financial damages. This dual policy of giving Corporations all the rights of a person with none of the responsibility makes corporations a super person above the law. By definition that is psychopathic. Such legal standing is unprecedented and needs to be undone.


Corporate law need go back to enforcing corporate responsibility to the public good. Corporations were not brought into existence to make their owners rich. That is the big lie here the media keeps telling. Corporations used to be called partnerships before the laws were changed. This meant that the owners of the partnership were held personally responsible for any losses incurred by the business. Profitable corporations should not be laying people off just fatten the bottom line or increase the stock price. A corporation should have to prove hardship before a government comity before they would be allowed to mass lay off workers. That is the way it works in mainland Europe. Now if you apply these laws to the example of BP the oil company that spilled millions of barrels of oil in gulf of Mexico. Instead of BP being allowed to use tax loopholes to write off the costs of the oil spill and still report record profits that year the law would hold them personally responsible for cleaning up the mess. The CEO instead of getting a multi million dollar bonus would go to jail for shirking his responsibility.


The same thing would apply to Wall Street firms like AIG who lost billions gambling in the Wall Street casino. Last I checked gambling was illegal in NYC and they should be going to jail for breaking the laws. There is no accountability in business today because as I said before corporations are above the law. When businesses fail the CEO's get huge severance checks commonly called golden parachutes that let them walk away like nothing happened. Remember when Enron was the largest bankruptcy in US History. The CEO is still multi millionaire today a decade later despite him having lost the retirement saving of 25,000 Enron Employees who got nothing. One of the directors of Enron at least choked on his guilt and committed suicide. Since then there have been dozens of mega bankruptcies that make Enron look small. We are a nation of Enrons and the government just looks the other way or bails them out if they are "Too big to fail." Make corporations pay for their mistakes and go after the individual owners for their crimes and throw them in jail and confiscate their personal fortunes if their business fails.


That is the real meaning of "Skin in the game." Corporations need to have some "Skin in the game" to make sure the economy as a whole recovers or it never will. If they are not willing to do that the government should revoke their corporate charters and turn their property over to people who are willing to manage it with dignified responsibility. Demand accountability. With great power comes great responsibility. Anything else is the logic of a psychopath.

[Pops]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Novus', 'T')hat is the real meaning of "Skin in the game." Corporations need to have some "Skin in the game" to make sure the economy as a whole recovers or it never will.

[Novus]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Novus', 'T')hat is the real meaning of "Skin in the game." Corporations need to have some "Skin in the game" to make sure the economy as a whole recovers or it never will.

[vision-master]

Don't they just shoot em in China?

[Loki]

I think we need another bout of constitutional amendments. A thorough house cleaning, but within the parameters of our republican system. Something like we had from 1865-70, and again from 1913-20.

The 14th Amendment is the best place to start. There's a natural, if uneasy, left-right coalition that could reverse a series of bad Supreme Court decisions. Abolish corporate personhood and redefine birthright citizenship. Something the OWS and Tea Party could work together on.

Taking money out of politics (i.e., money ain't speech) will also require a constitutional amendment. This will be more difficult.

I'd also support a reform of the Supreme Court, which has grabbed far too much power lately. Limited terms would be a good start. A veto mechanism would also be nice (2/3 of Congress plus presidential signature?).

I hope the OWS movement, or its inheritors, will consider the amendment process. Nibbling around the edges through policy reform (increasing taxes on the rich, stricter banking regulations, fixing the student loan problem, and the like) is of course necessary. But we need to get to the root of these problems.

[Ibon]

The devils is certainly in the details. Think for a moment how intertwined global capitalism is. You can't just change the laws in one country without this creating loopholes via other countries. Can you guys all imagine the exodus of corporations and capital if the US enacted strict financial regulation and Europe or China didn't. The financial capitol of the world would overnight leave New York and park itself somewhere else along with all the trillions held here in the US.

The Ponzi scheme is global. You can't patch on a fix in one place or like water capital will just continue to flow in the path of least resistance.

Today I go from hopeful to despair at the magnitude of the challenge to bring about real change to this ponzi scheme. It is a metastasized cancer that is already in the bones and bloodstreams of all major economies in the world.

[Novus]

Actually the details work in the favor of the 99% not the 1%. Having so few in control over so many is unsustainable. Remember Wall Street had to be bailed out. People keep forgetting this little detail. If they were not bailed out these hedge fund billionaires Would be done, finished, kaput, broke, penniless, history.


Remember the money on Wall Street isn't even real money in the traditional sense. It is speculated bubble debt money and it will implode if not constantly being propped up by the Robin hood in reverse state. Derivative Wall Street money makes even fiat currencies seem real. It exists no where but on a computer and is basically just an IOU against the 99%. Ponsi schemes require ever more money to be poured into the scheme to prop it up or it fails. We are at the point where it can no longer be kept up. It would be very easy to just stop supporting them and let the ponsi schemes implode.


Europe is fighting the same battle and have been trying to fight the bankers for years. The threat was always that European money would just go to America if Europe didn't play ball. But if the bankers get tossed out of American and Europe at the same time they would have no place to go. China won't take them because they know they are con artists. How does it sound to you "Hey Mr China we just wrecked Europe and America can we have control of your money supply."

[Ibon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Novus', 'A')ctually the details work in the favor of the 99% not the 1%. Having so few in control over so many is unsustainable. Remember Wall Street had to be bailed out. People keep forgetting this little detail. If they were not bailed out these hedge fund billionaires Would be done, finished, kaput, broke, penniless, history.


Remember the money on Wall Street isn't even real money in the traditional sense. It is speculated bubble debt money and it will implode if not constantly being propped up by the Robin hood in reverse state. Derivative Wall Street money makes even fiat currencies seem real. It exists no where but on a computer and is basically just an IOU against the 99%. Ponsi schemes require ever more money to be poured into the scheme to prop it up or it fails. We are at the point where it can no longer be kept up. It would be very easy to just stop supporting them and let the ponsi schemes implode.
"

[Sixstrings]

Apparently the working group that did this petition doesn't have approval, and doesn't speak for, the NYC general assembly:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'D')emands Working Group
Posted Oct. 21, 2011, 3:01 p.m. EST by OccupyWallSt

A group claiming to be affiliated with the General Assembly of Liberty Square and #ows has been speaking to the media on behalf of our movement.

This group is not empowered by the NYC General Assembly.

This group is not open-source and does not act by consensus.

This group only represents themselves.

While we encourage the participation of autonomous working groups, no single person or group has the authority to make demands on behalf of general assemblies around the world.

We are our demands. This #ows movement is about empowering communities to form their own general assemblies, to fight back against the tyranny of the 1%. Our collective struggles cannot be co-opted.
http://occupywallst.org/