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The 2011 PO.com Oil Price Challenge

Discussions about the economic and financial ramifications of PEAK OIL

Re: The 2011 PO.com Oil Price Challenge

Postby eastbay » Sun 26 Dec 2010, 22:43:22

High: $135
Low: $78
Close: $127
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Re: The 2011 PO.com Oil Price Challenge

Postby Revi » Sun 26 Dec 2010, 22:56:33

I'm going to go with a high of $157, because we might get to it this year.
A low of $80 and a closing price of $110.

It seems like we may have something happen during the course of 2011 that could drive the price up, and $10 more than the last all time high would be about right.

That's my WAG.
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Re: The 2011 PO.com Oil Price Challenge

Postby lper100km » Mon 27 Dec 2010, 02:06:13

Here’s my WAG

High $165
Low $88
Close $165
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Re: The 2011 PO.com Oil Price Challenge

Postby kublikhan » Mon 27 Dec 2010, 05:22:46

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pup55', 'B')y all means. If the PO.com news sleuths come across some "expert estimates" feel free to post them. Since they do not usually give the high, low and close, we can't really add them in the standings.....
Here is an EIA estimate that predicts the price for every month of 2011. I simplified it into low, high, and close:
EIA Low: $84
EIA High: $89
EIA Close: $89
EIA Short Term Energy Outlook

Goldman Sachs has a detailed breakdown as well. Here it is simplified into low, high, and close[brent]:
Goldman Sachs Low: $91
Goldman Sachs High: $107
Goldman Sachs Close: $107
Goldman Sachs Crude Oil Prediction for 2011
Is Brent usually $2 higher than WTI? Perhaps these should be adjusted down $2 to convert to WTI.
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Re: The 2011 PO.com Oil Price Challenge

Postby dolanbaker » Mon 27 Dec 2010, 05:38:43

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('kublikhan', ' ')
Is Brent usually $2 higher than WTI? Perhaps these should be adjusted down $2 to convert to WTI.

It would be better to choose a percentage difference, rather than a fixed price for the conversion factor.
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Re: The 2011 PO.com Oil Price Challenge

Postby TheAntiDoomer » Mon 27 Dec 2010, 09:21:42

High: 111
Low: 76
Close: 92
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Re: The 2011 PO.com Oil Price Challenge

Postby pup55 » Mon 27 Dec 2010, 09:28:41

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A') Reuters poll forecast oil prices will average over $86 a barrel next year on declining inventories and demand growth from Asia.


$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'h')ttp://www.saudigazette.com.sa/index.cfm?method=home.regcon&contentID=2010122289756

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')Societe Generale cut its oil price forecast for next year to $85 a barrel from $92 as demand growth slows and production outside OPEC expands.


http://www.arabianbusiness.com/societe-generale-cuts-2011-oil-price-forecast-by-7--85-350023.html

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'O')n Monday a senior Saudi Arabian oil official said that oil prices should remain between $70 and $80 a barrel. A week earlier, Saudi Oil Minister Ali Naimi told an audience in Singapore prices could rise to as high as $90 a barrel.

2011 May See Return to $100 Oil

However, most analysts believe that oil prices will head higher into 2011, through a combination of stronger crude oil demand and a weaker US dollar. Bank of America and Morgan Stanley analysts both estimate oil prices will hit $100 a barrel in 2011.


http://www.liveoilprices.co.uk/oil/oil_prices/11/2010/brent-oil-price-nears-90-trading-forecast-maybe-higher.html

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'L')eading energy analyst Phil Flynn argues that quantitative easing (money printing) is to blame for higher oil prices and stresses that the US Fed has been protecting the price of oil to support the idea that the economy is improving. Bearish in his beliefs, Flynn does does not think the market can bear $100 oil, despite other predictions.

“We heard from oil tycoon T. Boone Pickens in January predict a return to $100 a barrel, and Barclays prediction in April, and the perennial bulls Goldman Sachs with the latest call. Yet despite strong rallies, oil has fallen short of $100 and in fact, we have risked on more than one occasion a major sell off in oil prices.” said energy analyst Phil Flynn.


http://www.liveoilprices.co.uk/oil/oil_prices/12/2010/brent-oil-price-closes-over-91-mark-100-oil-for-2011.html

Flynn, as we all remember, predicted the collapse of oil prices for about 18 months, starting in 2007, while the market set record after record, in all probability losing a lot of money for his clients until he was proven "right" in mid-2008.....

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'O')il prices are most likely to approach $ 100 per barrel (dpb) in 2011, according to latest forecast from Centre for Global Energy Studies (CGES). In its latest monthly world oil report obtained by IRNA, the London-based center predicted in its reference

[url]
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/topi ... dRE?q=OPEC[/url]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '&')quot;We remain very positive on oil. Demand has surprised to the upside. Both non-OECD and OECD demand have rebounded very strongly this year and it is likely that demand would remain supportive of oil prices next year," said Chen Xin Yi, associate vice president at Barclays Capital in Singapore.

"We expect an average of USD 91 in 2011 with prices averaging USD 97 in the fourth quarter of 2011 and rising to USD 106 for 2012."

http://www.moneycontrol.com/news/commodities/oil-climbs-to-26-month-highus-blizzard_508588.html
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Re: The 2011 PO.com Oil Price Challenge

Postby Timo » Mon 27 Dec 2010, 10:35:56

This question is based purely on ignorance. That's self-admitted, so please, nobody point this fact out to me. I know it all well enough. But, here goes.......... Suppose, just for the sake of hypothetical thinking, that the price of oil was based in some other currency other than the dollar. I know this woldn't make it more available to anybody, but all PO arguments aside, what affect would this change have on the US and global economies? Prices now seem to be rising, but the value of the US dollar is also falling, which would seem to have a tie. Would a more stable currency also stabilize the prices of crude? Have fun with this one because i have no idea what the answer is.
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Re: The 2011 PO.com Oil Price Challenge

Postby ColossalContrarian » Mon 27 Dec 2010, 11:54:32

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Timo', 'T')his question is based purely on ignorance. That's self-admitted, so please, nobody point this fact out to me. I know it all well enough. But, here goes.......... Suppose, just for the sake of hypothetical thinking, that the price of oil was based in some other currency other than the dollar. I know this woldn't make it more available to anybody, but all PO arguments aside, what affect would this change have on the US and global economies? Prices now seem to be rising, but the value of the US dollar is also falling, which would seem to have a tie. Would a more stable currency also stabilize the prices of crude? Have fun with this one because i have no idea what the answer is.


If the price of Oil is based in another currency that was more stable I think we'd see inflation in the dollar as more apparent.

So if oil cost 10 <insert stable currency> bbl it would still translate to $90bbl for those who still use the dollar. 10<insert stable currency> might translate to maybe 35 loafs of bread depending on the price of wheat. I think the way dollar is being manipulated sometimes hides inflation so a more stable currecny could really hurt Ben's plans on inflating our problems away.
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Re: The 2011 PO.com Oil Price Challenge

Postby Rod_Cloutier » Mon 27 Dec 2010, 14:12:12

Low $91.00- the current price

High $500.00- the price where the government steps into the market to slap on price controls.

Close: $250.00- Government rationing, oil subsidized by the government printing dollars.

Peak oil was breached years ago, we're on the downward swing. The US will have to do what all third world countries have to do, and will step in to subsidize the price of food and energy to keep the public peace.
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Re: The 2011 PO.com Oil Price Challenge

Postby Revi » Mon 27 Dec 2010, 17:34:28

Wow! Repent, you put in some really bold figures. I thought I was on the high side with $157, but $500? I think it's possible, but it would have to get really tough for that to happen. I could see it with some kind of Persian Gulf debacle or something, though.
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Re: The 2011 PO.com Oil Price Challenge

Postby PeakOiler » Mon 27 Dec 2010, 18:43:05

Here's the list of players so far in my spreadsheet:

Image

All players please check to make sure your guesses I entered are correct.

The list is currently sorted by "Overall" then by "Name" , ascending, with all oil prices set at zero. These data give us quite a range!

$157 eh, Revi? I might need some more maple syrup, and perhaps a bottle of pupps' home brew this year...
:-D
There’s a strange irony related to this subject [oil and gas extraction] that the better you do the job at exploiting this oil and gas, the sooner it is gone.

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Re: The 2011 PO.com Oil Price Challenge

Postby TheDude » Tue 28 Dec 2010, 03:35:03

EIA Cushing Free-on-Board Spot real prices, with 3 year moving average:


$this->bbcode_second_pass_code('', 'US FOB YOY Ave 3YMA
US FOB YOY Ave 3YMA
1973 $5.21
1974 $10.91 $5.70
1975 $11.18 $0.27
1976 $12.15 $0.97 $2.31
1977 $13.24 $1.09 $0.78
1978 $13.29 $0.05 $0.70
1979 $20.07 $6.78 $2.64
1980 $32.37 $12.30 $6.38
1981 $35.15 $2.78 $7.29
1982 $32.02 -$3.13 $3.98
1983 $27.81 -$4.21 -$1.52
1984 $27.60 -$0.21 -$2.52
1985 $25.84 -$1.76 -$2.06
1986 $12.52 -$13.32 -$5.10
1987 $16.69 $4.17 -$3.64
1988 $13.25 -$3.44 -$4.20
1989 $16.89 $3.64 $1.46
1990 $20.37 $3.48 $1.23
1991 $16.89 -$3.48 $1.21
1992 $16.77 -$0.12 -$0.04
1993 $14.71 -$2.06 -$1.89
1994 $14.18 -$0.53 -$0.90
1995 $15.69 $1.51 -$0.36
1996 $19.32 $3.63 $1.54
1997 $16.94 -$2.38 $0.92
1998 $10.76 -$6.18 -$1.64
1999 $16.47 $5.71 -$0.95
2000 $26.27 $9.80 $3.11
2001 $20.46 -$5.81 $3.23
2002 $22.63 $2.17 $2.05
2003 $25.86 $3.23 -$0.14
2004 $33.75 $7.89 $4.43
2005 $47.60 $13.85 $8.32
2006 $57.03 $9.43 $10.39
2007 $66.36 $9.33 $10.87
2008 $90.32 $23.96 $14.24
2009 $57.78 -$32.54 $0.25
2010 $79.33 $17.41 $3.12
')

How about these historic prices?


$this->bbcode_second_pass_code('', '
Year Price YOY 3YMA
1946 $1.63
1947 $2.16 $0.53
1948 $2.77 $0.61
1949 $2.77 $0.00 $0.38
1950 $2.77 $0.00 $0.20
1951 $2.77 $0.00 $0.00
1952 $2.77 $0.00 $0.00
1953 $2.92 $0.15 $0.05
1954 $2.99 $0.07 $0.07
1955 $2.93 -$0.06 $0.05
1956 $2.94 $0.01 $0.01
1957 $3.14 $0.20 $0.05
1958 $3.00 -$0.14 $0.02
1959 $3.00 $0.00 $0.02
1960 $2.91 -$0.09 -$0.08
1961 $2.85 -$0.06 -$0.05
1962 $2.85 $0.00 -$0.05
1963 $2.91 $0.06 $0.00
1964 $3.00 $0.09 $0.05
1965 $3.01 $0.01 $0.05
1966 $3.10 $0.09 $0.06
1967 $3.12 $0.02 $0.04
1968 $3.18 $0.06 $0.06
1969 $3.32 $0.14 $0.07
1970 $3.39 $0.07 $0.09
1971 $3.60 $0.21 $0.14
1972 $3.60 $0.00 $0.09
1973 $4.75 $1.15 $0.45
1974 $9.35 $4.60 $1.92
1975 $12.21 $2.86 $2.87
1976 $13.10 $0.89 $2.78
1977 $14.40 $1.30 $1.68
1978 $14.95 $0.55 $0.91
1979 $25.10 $10.15 $4.00
1980 $37.42 $12.32 $7.67
1981 $35.75 -$1.67 $6.93
1982 $31.83 -$3.92 $2.24
1983 $29.08 -$2.75 -$2.78
1984 $28.75 -$0.33 -$2.33
1985 $26.92 -$1.83 -$1.64
1986 $14.44 -$12.48 -$4.88
1987 $17.75 $3.31 -$3.67
1988 $14.87 -$2.88 -$4.02
1989 $18.33 $3.46 $1.30
1990 $23.19 $4.86 $1.81
1991 $20.20 -$2.99 $1.78
1992 $19.25 -$0.95 $0.31
1993 $16.75 -$2.50 -$2.15
1994 $15.66 -$1.09 -$1.51
1995 $16.75 $1.09 -$0.83
1996 $20.46 $3.71 $1.24
1997 $18.64 -$1.82 $0.99
1998 $11.91 -$6.73 -$1.61
1999 $16.56 $4.65 -$1.30
2000 $27.39 $10.83 $2.92
2001 $23.00 -$4.39 $3.70
2002 $22.81 -$0.19 $2.08
2003 $27.69 $4.88 $0.10
2004 $37.66 $9.97 $4.89
2005 $50.04 $12.38 $9.08
2006 $58.30 $8.26 $10.20
2007 $64.20 $5.90 $8.85
2008 $91.48 $27.28 $13.81
2009 $53.48 -$38.00 -$1.61
2010 $70.67 $17.19 $2.16')

20 solid years in a 10 cent band. Looks like petroleum just has the occasional bad decade.

Pup - regarding the historic minimum price in a year, that site says 1980 was $99.11 in June '10 dollars. I know there are inflation adjusters where you can plow in a series like this at the click of a mouse.
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Re: The 2011 PO.com Oil Price Challenge

Postby Revi » Tue 28 Dec 2010, 11:42:00

The third time's the charm. I think my guess at $157 as a high could really happen this year. We'll see. It all depends on what they do with the printing press later on this year, and if oil gets tight.
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Re: The 2011 PO.com Oil Price Challenge

Postby Midessa » Tue 28 Dec 2010, 18:16:32

Ok last year I my predictions were:

low 75
high 100
close 100

I think I did ok but I was consistently about $7 to $8 dollars high. My main assumption was that the economy would improve gradually but steadily resulting in the high coming near the close.

I dunno, my gut tells me that the same scenario should be valid this year, I just need to correct for my high estimates. Last year I didn't leave any room for the price to down much, so I was gritting my teeth as it dropped for a while. :x I am going to give the low more wiggle this time.

So:

low $82
high $112
close $112
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Re: The 2011 PO.com Oil Price Challenge

Postby wisconsin_cur » Wed 29 Dec 2010, 06:47:31

Despite have my clock cleaned in 2010, lets give it another spin of the wheel.

In a hat tip to the psychology of previous investment I will keep the same high I predicted last year: High: 138.95

For the same reason, I think we will see a return of volatility and will predict a low of 72.12

Close: 98.99

While I would appreciate the love and respect of all present, my pocket book hopes that I am as wrong (and wrong in the same direction) as last year.

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Re: The 2011 PO.com Oil Price Challenge

Postby Gerben » Fri 31 Dec 2010, 14:46:01

High: 130
Low: 86
Close: 125
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Re: The 2011 PO.com Oil Price Challenge

Postby Xenophobe » Fri 31 Dec 2010, 19:16:35

High 110
Low 70
Close 95
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Re: The 2011 PO.com Oil Price Challenge

Postby roccman » Fri 31 Dec 2010, 21:35:58

Ok - not to throw the curve (again)

High - $225

Low - $70

Close - $185

Cheers :)
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Re: The 2011 PO.com Oil Price Challenge

Postby roccman » Fri 31 Dec 2010, 21:40:09

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Revi', 'W')ow! Repent, you put in some really bold figures. I thought I was on the high side with $157, but $500? I think it's possible, but it would have to get really tough for that to happen. I could see it with some kind of Persian Gulf debacle or something, though.



I did the $600 thing a few years past.

I think Repent is closer to what is likely to happen.
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