[JohnDenver]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('oiless', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('JohnDenver', ' ')I think it's only a matter of time until the appropriate military people realize that suburbia and the private auto are a grave threat to national security. This may result in real changes, because they will be coming from the top down this time. The "love affair" of the consumer will not be taken into consideration when national security is at stake

[NEOPO]

I am here to abuse poor old retired guy

Do you have children/grand children/family you care about that wont die when you will?? etc etc???
Dead or close to death and no longing caring about life/living implies to me that you either
A. have no children
B. are self centered and only think about yourself - you heartless bastard!!
C. have children yet cannot stand to be in the same room with your own solar powered satan spawn
D. are a combination of both A and B or B and C.

For the record, which is it?!?!?!?
Vee have Vays of making you talk!!!

I admit to my selfish desire to preserve my offspring, my spouse and myself in that order.

[RG73]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('JohnDenver', ' ')If the U.S. resorts to such measures, they will once and forever expose themselves as a nation of insane hypocrits, thieves and murderers. American moral authority will drop to zero. No one will ever listen to the U.S. or trust it ever again.

[RonMN]

One idea about the starving masses showing up on your doorstep.

If we really got to that point then there would be NO gas/diesel to run anything...so tractors wouldn't be running for plowing fields. A family of 4 or 5 couldn't possibly plow 40 acres with a shovel. So before the "masses" show up, you'll see a straggler refugee asking for help...you let him use an acre, show him how to hunt/gather/fish/plant & shelter himself and get his/her undying loyalty. There's another person for your personal protection army.

Then another straggler comes along...

After a while you'd have to make a descision on how many people your land could possibly sustain & stop taking in any others, however at this point you'd have a decent amount of people ready to wage war for the protection of your little village.

It's not a perfect idea...but it's better than having no options at all!

[KevO]

The ASPO doc at another thread is also a peak oil milestone, along with this initial post and subsequent thread. Cheers and well peached Monty my lovely.

KevO

[TheTurtle]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('RonMN', '
')
After a while you'd have to make a descision on how many people your land could possibly sustain & stop taking in any others, however at this point you'd have a decent amount of people ready to wage war for the protection of your little village.

It's not a perfect idea...but it's better than having no options at all!

[retiredguy]

Hey NEOPO,

I can take all the abuse you wish to hurl

Yes, I do have a child, but she is almost 30 and is fully-fledged.

You can call me selfish or heartless, but the reality is that, as an individual, there is very little one can do about PO or anything in general.

The analogy that comes to mind is the Titanic. When the ship started to sink, the passengers had but a few choices. They could hope for survival by getting aboard the limited number of lifeboats available (small group survival) or they could grab something that floats and jump the ship (individual survival). By leaving the ship, they insured their immediate survival but had to survive a period of time in a hostile environment.

Then there were those who stayed on the ship. Some did so out of a sense of duty, some did so, perhaps, because they thought the ship wouldn't sink after all. Others, maybe some older folks, decided that jumping the ship was just postponing the inevitable. Maybe they decided that they had had a good run and going down with the ship was the best option.

I don't see any absolutes in this scenario.

May I ask how you are preparing for PO?

[katkinkate]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('holmes', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('DomusAlbion', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('holmes', ' ')..... It reminds me of millions of whiny brats that need good spankings. .

[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('holmes', '
')still talking about peak this peak that. back and forth. mundane topics. rehashed over and over. Its done. the facts are blatant.

[Pops]

I guess a forum such as this one is all about endless speculating, rehashing (what us old timers view as) ‘old topics’ and me bitching about it!

Retired guy’s analogy rings true to the Doomer in me for the part he left out, namely the people at the helm (TPTB) believed the status quo indestructible, will not be able to avert the impact when it becomes apparent, and will be unable to correct the problem after the fact.

I don’t believe in the inevitability of complete destruction, not only are their more factors than my small brain can imagine but also, just as Monte points out, I think there are real solutions to be found locally.

I certainly wouldn’t suggest that everyone should head for the hills and grow rutabagas. It turns out that is a good solution for me; I’ve been chasing the buck for 30 years, know I will enjoy the life and hope to be less impacted by the economic effects of PO to boot. There are as many responses to PO as there are people and hashing out the possibilities is one that I engage in all the time, on the other hand, I do stuff most every day with PO in mind.

I have no inside track, don’t pretend to comprehend all the macro factors and currently my crystal ball is on the fritz, but I sincerely believe once the party gets going and the economic effects begin to be felt much more than the current ‘nuisance-level’ price increases, it could be very hard to get out of the way.

Of course my advice is probably worth much less than you’re paying for it.

Signed

Pops
King of Thunder Bottom

[mark]

Aaron,

Really, what's the real problem? Peak oil is a symptom, overpopulation is a symptom. Fractional reserve banking is a symptom. So, what's the real problem?

Inquiring minds want to know!

Thanks for the post Monte (where've you been?) and those wonderful replies all.

[Aaron]

Growth

[shakespear1]

Short memory and it's not my problem attitude.

[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Aaron', 'G')rowth

[Ardalla]

The real problem is is human beings are part of Nature and all Nature is flawed. The biggest human flaw is we lie to ourselves, to each other ... we even lie when we are trying to tell the truth.

I used to think I could make a conscious effort to see the truth. I now know it's impossible. It has to do with the wiring of my brain. When human beings first stood up in the grasslands of Africa, we saw what appeared to us to be a world governed by supernatural forces: lightning, floods, earthquakes, a mysterious sky full of objects that moved. We assumed these natural forces were conscious beings we could appease with the right rituals.

Even now, there is a part of my mind that believes in the supernatural. All of this delusion we see concerning PO is just people carrying on as usual: lying to themselves. When PO happens there will be people all around me talking about Jesus and the Rapture, looking for scapegoats (round up the usual suspects), or just being incredulous and waiting for someone to lead them to a place of safety.

As human beings we have always had this flaw. It has not destroyed us previously because we lacked the power to really screw things up on a macro scale. We now have that power. It was necessary for us to make the leap from the supernatural to the real. We didn't/haven't made that leap. Sure, now we have science and technology coupled with a massive world economy that has created a consumerist world in which everything is linked to cheap energy availablility. However, that highly efficient, modern mind is coupled to a supenatural brain that is still churning out lies and delusions. We still want to sacrifice the virgin in the volcano. Maybe the oil god will be appeased and grant us a few more decades.

Somewhere around 1900 we needed to see where we were headed in terms of world population and oil supplies. I can't see how that was even a possibility in 1900. It would have required a sea change in the human psyche which could not have happened at that time. Nature, it seems, has created an animal that can destroy much of organic life on this planet. Is Nature suicidal? If I believed that Nature was a conscious being, I might be inclined to think so.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ardalla', 'N')ature, it seems, has created an animal that can destroy much of organic life on this planet. Is Nature suicidal? If I believed that Nature was a conscious being, I might be inclined to think so.

[mark]

Ah, yes...growth.

As true as that is, growth seems to be the natural condition of the human species. The first two humans would have been awfully lonely if not for growth. Any two who come together (OH oh) desire to procreate, is it not in our genes?

Perhaps un-intelligent growth would more accurately describe our present prediciment. But then some would ask, what is intelligent growth? How do we manage to both grow as intelligent beings and maintain a sustainable economic civilization? What's the ultimate answer to life on earth?

I know, I know, that's a whole new thread... and probably one without a satisfying answer for all.

[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mark', '
')As true as that is, growth seems to be the natural condition of the human species.

[Jack]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('JohnDenver', 'Y')es, Jack brought up that idea too. We'll nuke Saudi Arabia, or hit it with smallpox or a neutron bomb. The U.S. will commit genocide on an entire nation, simply to get the oil. I don't think the "cover story" angle will work. ..snip... How's your average soccer Mom going to feel when she's buzzing over to Toys'R'Us on fuel provided by the massacre of 26 million people?

The reputational fallout of the nuke/smallpox strategy is too great. The new Holocaust won't be happening in a vacuum. The entire world will be watching it on television, and reading about it in the newspaper. If the U.S. resorts to such measures, they will once and forever expose themselves as a nation of insane hypocrits, thieves and murderers. American moral authority will drop to zero. No one will ever listen to the U.S. or trust it ever again.

[jdmartin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'f')irefights with starving hordes of blistered footed suburbanites is really pretty far down on my to-do list