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Supremes remove all limits on corporate campaign donations

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Re: Supremes remove all limits on corporate campaign donations

Unread postby ALBY » Fri 22 Jan 2010, 15:43:14

you guys should go for it.

amend the consitution to eliminate corporate personhood.

ill vote for it.
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Re: Supremes remove all limits on corporate campaign donations

Unread postby ALBY » Fri 22 Jan 2010, 15:45:36

i am not willing to limit my freedom because of terrorism.

just because i think mcain feingold was bad law, doesn't mean i sipport the patriot act.

im just a garden variety a**hole, no need to stand up any strawman arguments ....
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Re: Supremes remove all limits on corporate campaign donations

Unread postby Sixstrings » Fri 22 Jan 2010, 15:55:56

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tanada', '[')b]Have to say I think this might turn out to be a very good thing, expect the Pol's who talk constantly about evil corporate greed to discover their opponents being very well funded in the next election cycle.


I don't know, Tanada. I'll grant you, there's a SLIM chance this may help -- just by shaking things up a bit. And, it will now be possible for a few wealthy individuals to incorporate a campaign corp, and singlehandedly fund a candidate. That could be terrible, but if the wealthy donors happen to have some good ideas (like old Perot) then it could be good.

But again, I'd say hope this will be a "good thing" is slim. By and large Tanada, the ONLY thing corporations care about is maximization of profits. Their prime directive in public life is to give back as little as possible, while making as much profit as they can. I fear corporations are going to use this new massive power to get everything they want -- that means squashing all consumer protections (do you care about your food safety, Tanada?), more deregulation (expect more Enrons, except this time they'll vote themselves a taxpayer bailout), squashing unions even more (unions are already pretty much dead), etc.

Folks, a corporate-controlled government is a FASCIST government! That's the very definition of fascism, the marriage of the corporations and government. Yesterday, our republic officially became a commonwealth of multi-national corporations. Ask not what the corporations can do for you, ask what you can do for the corporations. :-x

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Re: Supremes remove all limits on corporate campaign donations

Unread postby rangerone314 » Fri 22 Jan 2010, 16:16:14

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ALBY', 'i') am not willing to limit my freedom because of terrorism.

just because i think mcain feingold was bad law, doesn't mean i sipport the patriot act.

im just a garden variety a**hole, no need to stand up any strawman arguments ....

I wasn't targetting you specifically and I was not posing a strawman argument but simply asking people that if they are going to weigh A vs B and B vs C, maybe they should also weigh A vs C.

Its like acknowledging abortion is wrong because killing innocent people is immoral, but then allowing wars to proceed knowing innocent people will be killed. Some of the reasons people might get an abortion are no more trivial or self-centered than some of the reasons countries to go war.

Its perfectly fair to ask why I need a permit to exercise my free speech (that will get denied if the government doesn't like what I am going to say) but a corporation gets to have MONEY considered free speech.

Is all political expression speech? If so, that's a new way to look at stuff like the MLK and JFK assassinations. Maybe if they regulate away the right to bear arms, you can still get the Supreme Court to rule bullets as free speech like money.
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Equals barter and negotiate-people with power just take

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Re: Supremes remove all limits on corporate campaign donations

Unread postby highlander » Fri 22 Jan 2010, 16:38:30

Lot of bashing of corporations here.
How many of you do not work for a corporation?

How about the other side of the coin. PAC's and labor unions had things pretty much their way.
Unions are just another tool to extort money from workers. The scales are more balanced now.
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Re: Supremes remove all limits on corporate campaign donations

Unread postby rangerone314 » Fri 22 Jan 2010, 16:48:59

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('highlander', 'L')ot of bashing of corporations here.
How many of you do not work for a corporation?

How about the other side of the coin. PAC's and labor unions had things pretty much their way.
Unions are just another tool to extort money from workers. The scales are more balanced now.

Compare the amount of money a union has to a corporation like Exxon.
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Equals barter and negotiate-people with power just take

You cant defend freedom by eliminating it-unknown

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Re: Supremes remove all limits on corporate campaign donations

Unread postby Ludi » Fri 22 Jan 2010, 16:53:26

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('highlander', '
')Unions are just another tool to extort money from workers.



My husband is in a union (SAG) which has never extorted money from him. His dues are a couple hundred dollars a year, I think. In return he earns thousands of dollars a year thanks to union negotiations. So my family has benefited from unions. Can you describe more about how your family has been hurt by them?
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Re: Supremes remove all limits on corporate campaign donations

Unread postby gollum » Fri 22 Jan 2010, 17:09:52

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('highlander', '
')Unions are just another tool to extort money from workers.



My husband is in a union (SAG) which has never extorted money from him. His dues are a couple hundred dollars a year, I think. In return he earns thousands of dollars a year thanks to union negotiations. So my family has benefited from unions. Can you describe more about how your family has been hurt by them?



Oh those evil unions with that forty hour week, workplace safety, retirement, medical coverage, Damn then, why can't Americans work for $1 a day like they do in Bangladesh?????
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Re: Supremes remove all limits on corporate campaign donations

Unread postby highlander » Fri 22 Jan 2010, 18:48:29

Whatever
I am forced to join a union that blindly supports the democratic party which does nothing to help the working man. remember Clinton (Bill) and his globalism agenda that cost US its manufacturing base.
Our union extorts several hundred dollars a year from me.
It also pledged 20 million to elect Clinton Hillary) last election
Excepting bankers, who spent millions to elect Obama, what corporation spends that kind of money to promote candidates that aren't even in the finals.
You might check your unions activities and financial statements before re-upping next time.
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Re: Supremes remove all limits on corporate campaign donations

Unread postby Tanada » Fri 22 Jan 2010, 20:10:53

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tanada', '[')b]Have to say I think this might turn out to be a very good thing, expect the Pol's who talk constantly about evil corporate greed to discover their opponents being very well funded in the next election cycle.


I don't know, Tanada. I'll grant you, there's a SLIM chance this may help -- just by shaking things up a bit. And, it will now be possible for a few wealthy individuals to incorporate a campaign corp, and singlehandedly fund a candidate. That could be terrible, but if the wealthy donors happen to have some good ideas (like old Perot) then it could be good.

True, they can fund "A" candidate, perhaps for President? However no corporation is big enough to fund a majority of candidates for high office, which means even if we get the Corporate pick President we still control the Congress by shear weight of numbers.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')But again, I'd say hope this will be a "good thing" is slim. By and large Tanada, the ONLY thing corporations care about is maximization of profits. Their prime directive in public life is to give back as little as possible, while making as much profit as they can. I fear corporations are going to use this new massive power to get everything they want -- that means squashing all consumer protections (do you care about your food safety, Tanada?), more deregulation (expect more Enrons, except this time they'll vote themselves a taxpayer bailout), squashing unions even more (unions are already pretty much dead), etc.
Apparently you did not notice that Fannie Mae and Freddy Mack both defrauded the taxpayers 10 times over what Enron did, and were promptly bailed out by Congress? The system we have now is already filled with corruption, at least if we get some new players in the game some of that will have to change, at least for a while.$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')Folks, a corporate-controlled government is a FASCIST government! That's the very definition of fascism, the marriage of the corporations and government. Yesterday, our republic officially became a commonwealth of multi-national corporations. Ask not what the corporations can do for you, ask what you can do for the corporations. :-x


What is it you think we have now in the USA? GM is controlled by the government, many other companies have power sharing with the government, it isn't as if we live in the pure world of 1790 when the country was young and the corrupt had not yet figured out the levers of power.

Corporations, big or small, are the places most of us get our paychecks from. They are the bosses, not some mythical demonic force gathering to lord it over all of us. I have a lot more faith in business people running the country with an eye on the bottom line than I do those who got a law degree and went into politics. At least the business people have a clue that to keep making money you have to sell a product, or service and ticking off your customer is a good way to keep that from happening. Taxpayers are the customer of the Government, but lately they don't care if the peeve us off or not. Hopefully with a more business type politician joining the government now and then they will become more responsive to us and less responsive to special interests.
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Re: Supremes remove all limits on corporate campaign donations

Unread postby Ludi » Fri 22 Jan 2010, 21:04:30

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('highlander', '
')I am forced to join a union



Who is forcing you to join a union? If you hate them so much, why not find a different career? Maybe one in which you have to work weekends and don't get overtime or benefits.
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Re: Supremes remove all limits on corporate campaign donations

Unread postby gollum » Fri 22 Jan 2010, 22:35:28

Unions are by and large the reason we have a middle class in the United States. My great grandfather always said the rich would never allow a middle class to exist, they are very close to that goal.
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Re: Supremes remove all limits on corporate campaign donations

Unread postby TheDude » Fri 22 Jan 2010, 22:44:00

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', 'E')xactly. The John Roberts Supreme Court has decreed that corporations now enjoy the full constitutional rights of an individual citizen. But as you point out Homesteader, these corporations are GLOBAL entities, not bound by any fealty to this particular country. It's really akin to granting US citizenship to the entire world.


Aha - we've succeeded in spreading democracy.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Orlov', 'I')t is certainly more fun to watch two Capitalist parties go at each other than just having the one Communist party to vote for.


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Re: Supremes remove all limits on corporate campaign donations

Unread postby efarmer » Fri 22 Jan 2010, 23:03:35

And I thought Doc Frankenstein was pretty slick when he made a creature out
of cadavers and raised it up to get a jump start by lightening bolts.

Doc Roberts made a man out of paper and raised him up to blow money up
real people's asses and jump start the election cycle.

Ladies and Gentleman, I present you Corpenstein, "it lives".
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Re: Supremes remove all limits on corporate campaign donations

Unread postby Homesteader » Sat 23 Jan 2010, 01:46:31

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tanada', '
') I have a lot more faith in business people running the country with an eye on the bottom line than I do those who got a law degree and went into politics. At least the business people have a clue that to keep making money you have to sell a product, or service and ticking off your customer is a good way to keep that from happening. Taxpayers are the customer of the Government, but lately they don't care if the peeve us off or not. Hopefully with a more business type politician joining the government now and then they will become more responsive to us and less responsive to special interests.


You really think this is a likely outcome?

IMO the outcome baked into the cake is corporations fund the stooges who will best serve their interests ie: keep ladling the government handouts their way, weaken laws that reduce profits and create laws that assure greater profits, generate propaganda to keep the masses in line.
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Re: Supremes remove all limits on corporate campaign donations

Unread postby Tanada » Sat 23 Jan 2010, 02:58:11

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Homesteader', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tanada', '
') I have a lot more faith in business people running the country with an eye on the bottom line than I do those who got a law degree and went into politics. At least the business people have a clue that to keep making money you have to sell a product, or service and ticking off your customer is a good way to keep that from happening. Taxpayers are the customer of the Government, but lately they don't care if the peeve us off or not. Hopefully with a more business type politician joining the government now and then they will become more responsive to us and less responsive to special interests.


You really think this is a likely outcome?

IMO the outcome baked into the cake is corporations fund the stooges who will best serve their interests ie: keep ladling the government handouts their way, weaken laws that reduce profits and create laws that assure greater profits, generate propaganda to keep the masses in line.


Once upon a time in America it was said that what is good for GM (or IBM in some versions) is good for America, and what is good for America is good for The World.

Having a business friendly environment does not mean throwing all common sense to the wind, and having a reasonable balance makes for a successful country. Punitive and pointless regulation for the sake of regulation accomplishes little and costs much, complete lack of regulation is nothing wonderful either. The problem is at the time Teddy Roosevelt was President there had been almost no regulation, now we have swung to the opposite extreme. Try starting a new business, or even running a long term one in this environment. The company I work for was founded in 1927 and last week had to literally double their paper file capacity due to new regulations that have been passed in the last decade. Several new compliance forms now have to be filed every week and paper copies have to be kept instead of just having digital data stored.

Mega corporations will try and abuse the system, but then again lots of regular humans do the same thing. If everyone is equal before the law then the bad get punished and the good get rewarded. America was once a country of Laws and not of Men, that is everyone was equal before the law and bribes and favor trading were fairly rare. Today it seems more and more that we have become a country of who you know and what you give them than a country of equal application of the law. Justice is no longer blind, she peeks and adjusts the scales accordingly. If we stay on that path much longer there will cease to be a middle class, either you will be rich enough to 'buy justice' or you won't.
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Re: Supremes remove all limits on corporate campaign donations

Unread postby efarmer » Sat 23 Jan 2010, 11:28:01

Bribes and favor trading were no doubt robust and prevalent in the caves
of the earliest humans. America was founded by folks who were attempting
to keep the balance of government close to the people at the state and local
level so as to keep it as sweet as possible.

They also sought to keep the international bankers and corporations
separate from the government so that they could represent their
respective interests honestly, regardless of whether interests were running
mutual or at odds at a given time or per issue.
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Re: Supremes remove all limits on corporate campaign donations

Unread postby sparky » Sat 23 Jan 2010, 11:30:13

.

Rockefeller is supposed to have kipped that
having to change his business practice it was cheaper to buy out a state legislature

now could you answer the question ...does this apply to non U.S. corporation too ??

I guess Toyota isn't too bad as lord and master ,

but what about Sinopec the Chines state oil company ,
could a foreign state enterprise get itself a brace of congressmen ??
the Chinese government could buy outright a majority in congress .

.
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Re: Supremes remove all limits on corporate campaign donations

Unread postby Jotapay » Sat 23 Jan 2010, 11:31:02

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tanada', 'C')orporations, big or small, are the places most of us get our paychecks from. They are the bosses, not some mythical demonic force gathering to lord it over all of us. I have a lot more faith in business people running the country with an eye on the bottom line than I do those who got a law degree and went into politics.


Your statements (and others here about corporations) sound like you are defending the practices of Wal-Mart and such, when we all know mom and pop small businesses are preferable. And corporations don't employ most of the private sector. Small business makes up the majority of the economy, as is so often quoted on the news.
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Re: Supremes remove all limits on corporate campaign donations

Unread postby Ludi » Sat 23 Jan 2010, 11:32:29

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('efarmer', 'B')ribes and favor trading were no doubt robust and prevalent in the caves
of the earliest humans..



I don't know about that. Bribes aren't really needed in a non-hierarchical band society, because everyone is sharing everything anyway.

Once you get hierarchies, then you get all kinds of cheating behavior.
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