[MD]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('KaiserJeep', '
')
The World has always been a cruel place - that is why we evolved to a species capable of living in space, with technological help.

[KaiserJeep]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('GHung', '-')snip-

Question: What was wrong with the spaceship we already have? If we 're going to use it up and abandon it, what makes you think we wouldn't do the same wherever we end up? So far, it seems our assholiness is baked in. Up to now, moving to new locations hasn't changed our behavior for the better much. Maybe it was always meant to be that way; gain wisdom as a species, or perish.

[Paulo1]

Outcast

So aggresive...your stance. It takes away from any point you might have made.

re: whiny professors. I forgot to mention said professor, who is a good friend of mine by the way, was a Marine drill sargeant who attended UT on the GI bill...after Korea by the way. Whiny? Not so much. Tough son of a bitch? You bet.

[Keith_McClary]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('KaiserJeep', 'H')ello Paulo. When I read the above OpEd, I was (speaking as an Engineer) struck by the author's final argument about climate change sensitivity. In an amplifier circuit, one can apply positive or negative feedback as you choose. Negative feedback tends to decrease the gain of the circuit, reduce distortion, and in general make the output/input signals more alike and more stable. Positive feedback increases gain in a non-linear fashion, increases distortion, and tends to make the circuit susceptible to wild oscillations that are damped out only by some other limiting factor such as the capacity of the amplifier power supply.

Most feedbacks in Nature are negative in sign, they act to restore organisms and ecologies to a stable state. The Biological term for this is Homeostasis. Much controversy has resulted from the "feedback mechanisms" that are inserted into the climate models, which are the reasons that such models all will show dramatic temperature swings (Al Gore dubbed this the "hockey stick").

I believe that the authors of these models have made basic math errors by assuming all feedbacks are positive. I would argue that like almost all feedback loops in Nature, that climate feedbacks are Homeostatic, and the men doing the modeling are in error. If you make such alterations in sign to the climate models, the predicted temperatures are more accurate in the sense that they are closer to the observed temperatures.

[Peak_Yeast]

The nature and structure of humanity will prevent us from choosing the correct people to populate space. We know that the worst socio and psychopaths concentrate in the top tier of wealthy people and far from all psychos are as well-meaning to the earth and humanity as Hugo Drax.

The quote from the bible from KJ is the very human reason why we destroyed earth in the first place - so is this really divine advice?

It would have been much easier if we had had the intelligence to maintain our current spaceship instead of building tiny, fragile, unsustainable spaceships to try to escape our own stupidity in.

Besides what makes anyone think we will behave much better on a ridiculously lousy spaceship compared to the one we have now? Its also going to be long term endeavor.

[SeaGypsy]

Thing is we would still not escape our own stupidity. There is no logical reason to believe humans can stay sane for an extended period in anything like such an utterly artificial environment, even if the tech miracles required to make such endeavour possible all came to being. As I consistently argue to KJ, the entire basis of the premise are utterly corrupt & absolutely unethical. We are a planetary virus, a kudzu ape, until such time as can be evidenced otherwise. Get spaceship Earth sorted out then see how many volunteers put up to spin around in a tin can forever or equally absurd, colonise Mars & the like. As others have mentioned there is a grossly immature negligence at play in these fantasies & they deserve to be called out.

[KaiserJeep]

Now all of you folks need to shut the door to the box that your head is in, turn the key in the lock, and then remove and swallow it. Hopefully you don't have any windows in the box, because then a new idea might sneak in when you are least expecting it.

[MD]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('KaiserJeep', 'N')ow all of you folks need to shut the door to the box that your head is in, turn the key in the lock, and then remove and swallow it. Hopefully you don't have any windows in the box, because then a new idea might sneak in when you are least expecting it.

[Ibon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('KaiserJeep', '
')We can argue whatever about that difference and what inspired it. My point is that we transcend other species and our fate is (I deeply believe) in our own hands.

[Ibon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MD', '
')Why do people tend to get stuck in their own conclusions? I find myself doing it all the time, but fortunately, so far, I've had the capacity to slap myself when necessary. One of my greatest fears is to get stuck forever, like most of the other old people I know.

[GHung]

"Why do people tend to get stuck in their own conclusions?"

Many of us don't. We re-examine the evidence that led us to those conclusions, and incorporate new evidence into that process. So far, the evidence has re-inforced my conclusions that humans are on a net destructive path regarding their environment and the viability of their own collective future. Have they made some progress? Yes, but not any progress that's proportional in terms of countering their destructive behavior. Not even close.

[Pops]

There is just so much wrong with the OP it is hard to know where to start, but that is the entire point of the Wall of B.S. argument tactic, is it not?

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', ' ')It is an ironic truth that no nonrenewable resource has ever run dry, while renewable resources—whales, cod, forests, passenger pigeons—have frequently done so.

[Ibon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('GHung', '[')i]"Why do people tend to get stuck in their own conclusions?"

Many of us don't. We re-examine the evidence that led us to those conclusions, and incorporate new evidence into that process. So far, the evidence has re-inforced my conclusions that humans are on a net destructive path regarding their environment and the viability of their own collective future. Have they made some progress? Yes, but not any progress that's proportional in terms of countering their destructive behavior. Not even close.

[kanon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', 'T')here is just so much wrong with the OP it is hard to know where to start, but that is the entire point of the Wall of B.S. argument tactic, is it not?

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', ' ')It is an ironic truth that no nonrenewable resource has ever run dry, while renewable resources—whales, cod, forests, passenger pigeons—have frequently done so.

[KaiserJeep]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Keith_McClary', 'I')n what way is the climate system analogous to an amplifier circuit or a biological system? A better analogy might be your pot of beans.

[Pops]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('KaiserJeep', 'T')he whole discussion simply reiterated something Ridley said in his OpEd piece, which I am certain few of you bothered to read through, since your opinions on Peak Oil, AGW, and Doom were -ah- "fossilized" sometime in your youth, and you now operate in a mode where you consciously exclude data and evidence that contradicts your pre-existing opinion.

[KaiserJeep]

Exactly, an Opinion Editorial. Exactly how many of you read it through and considered the arguments inside? Show of hands, please.

[Keith_McClary]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('KaiserJeep', 'I') was not making an analogy. I was explaining how positive and negative feedbacks work in feedback loops. Then I went on and made the point that virtually all of the feedback loops in Nature are negative (Homeostatic) and act to restore the stability.

[ennui2]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Outcast_Searcher', '
')OK, fine. Assuming you are rational, what is your excuse for siding with the "we are doomed real soon now" camp which according to my yardstick, at the end of the day (or year) is always wrong?

[kanon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('KaiserJeep', 'E')xactly, an Opinion Editorial. Exactly how many of you read it through and considered the arguments inside? Show of hands, please.