[LoneSnark]

wisconsin_cur, I do not at all understand why you think the two quotes are contradictory. In one I doubt whether manual labor is in our future, in the other I suggest the share of GDP going towards labor will increase. So what?

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'a')nd I'm still waiting for my list of jobs that will become available as oil declines and which one you are willing to sign up for and how you would feel in one of those jobs.

[RdSnt]

They know the MOL very accurately. It's a simple hydraulic issue, there is not mystery there. As well, there are automatic systems in place to close the network down if there is a danger of failure. Those systems work well.


$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('wisconsin_cur', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('LoneSnark', 'W')hen they say Minimum Operating Level, they do not mean "watch out, it better not get below that or everyone dies!" No, what they mean is "that is the lowest you will ever see it. It cannot drop below that point without draining the pipelines, which not being idiots they will not do."

If a quantity of oil must be left in the pipelines to keep them operating then the pipeline owners, eager not to put themselves out of business, will leave that quantity of oil in the pipeline. They will buy it if they have to (they do have money).

[RdSnt]

That's an excellent example Pops. Here is Canada we are just now getting a more or less general agreement that spraying chemicals on lawns is a bad thing. It's been a huge fight and that's for something not particularly critical. I find it amazing how hard people will fight for vanity.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', 'I') guess I am still on my Rachel Carson kick - more of a bottom up question.

Personally, I think timelines really don't matter in the context of when, not if and are really more a distraction in promoting the idea of get it while the getting's good.

When Rachel Carson wrote Silent Spring, folks who had endured hardships were convinced of the motto: Better Living Through Chemistry and fought any infringement on their right to use whatever chemical with a lablel promising to make their life easier. Heck I still hear older folks bemoan the loss of DDT.

Notwithstanding their wishes, changes were been made - maybe sometime too many changes but overall to the good I think.

Perhaps my title was wrong, maybe more along the lines of What Will Spark A PO Groundswell?

[RdSnt]

Pearl Harbour, to a great extent, was that era's 9/11. The government and military at the time knew they would be fighting the Japanese and they could have been better prepared. Those on the ground in Hawaii were not as well informed as they could have been, that was Washington's fault.
Both Pearl Harbour and 9/11 provide a meaningful metaphor for the unfolding events of Peak Oil.
There was tons of information available and many, many people providing warnings of impending disaster. In the end though it was the self-interested political mechinations of those "inside the Beltway" that pushed the respective systems to failure.

The most troubling aspect of Peak Oil is that we have had decades of warnings falling on deaf ears.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('lateStarter', 'M')aybe I'm showing my ignorance of pre-1941 history, but was anyone expecting an attack on Pearl Harbor despite all the other serious events taking place at that time? I would suggest that the PO Pearl Harbor will occur in a similar manner. Out of the blue. In other words, no matter how well informed you are, the actual 'event' will still catch most of us off guard.

[wisconsin_cur]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('LoneSnark', 'w')isconsin_cur, I do not at all understand why you think the two quotes are contradictory. In one I doubt whether manual labor is in our future, in the other I suggest the share of GDP going towards labor will increase. So what?

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'a')nd I'm still waiting for my list of jobs that will become available as oil declines and which one you are willing to sign up for and how you would feel in one of those jobs.

[Pops]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('wisconsin_cur', 'P')erhaps we should start a new thread ...

[threadbear]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MD', '"')Every sea captain, and all who travel by ship, the sailors, and all who earn their living from the sea, will stand far off. When they see the smoke of her burning, they will exclaim, 'Was there ever a city like this great city?' They will throw dust on their heads, and with weeping and mourning cry out:
" 'Woe! Woe, O great city,
where all who had ships on the sea
became rich through her wealth!
In one hour she has been brought to ruin!"

There's my annual revelations quote. That dude was on some powerful trip when he wrote it. This thread looked like a good place to insert his timeless view. Enjoy!

[JohnDenver]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TheDude', 'H')irsch speaks of decade long mitigation efforts, not 20 years.

[threadbear]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', 'I') guess I am still on my Rachel Carson kick - more of a bottom up question.

Personally, I think timelines really don't matter in the context of when, not if and are really more a distraction in promoting the idea of get it while the getting's good.

When Rachel Carson wrote Silent Spring, folks who had endured hardships were convinced of the motto: Better Living Through Chemistry and fought any infringement on their right to use whatever chemical with a lablel promising to make their life easier. Heck I still hear older folks bemoan the loss of DDT.

Notwithstanding their wishes, changes were been made - maybe sometime too many changes but overall to the good I think.

Perhaps my title was wrong, maybe more along the lines of What Will Spark A PO Groundswell?

[LoneSnark]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')f my articulation is anywhere near correct, I hope it is not too forward to ask, why are you here? Are you here to save us? Poke fun at the little children?

[TheDude]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Hirsch Report', 'O')ur results are congruent with the fundamentals of the problem:

• Waiting until world oil production peaks before taking crash program action leaves the world with a significant liquid fuel deficit for more than two decades.
• Initiating a mitigation crash program 10 years before world oil peaking helps considerably but still leaves a liquid fuels shortfall roughly a decade after the time that oil would have peaked.
• Initiating a mitigation crash program 20 years before peaking appears to offer the possibility of avoiding a world liquid fuels shortfall for the forecast period.

[TonyPrep]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('JohnDenver', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TonyPrep', 'S')ignificant though that peak was, you probably well know that all liquids production continued to grow and, according to the IEA, may have reached a new high in October 2007 (this year).

[JohnDenver]

Tony,
I don't want to muck up Pops' thread anymore, so I'll respond to you in a new thread called "Peak Oil: The Big Fizzle".
JD

[LoneSnark]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')as under the impression that in general economists aren't cognizant of resource limitations of any kind.

[TheDude]

Back on topic - you could give this a shot, Pops:

Fuel protesters set for weekend of action

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', ' ')Allegra Stratton
Monday December 10, 2007
Guardian Unlimited

The group behind the fuel refinery blockades that gripped the country in 2000 has announced it will stage fresh protests this Saturday.

In a statement released on its website this morning, Transaction 2007 said the rise of the price of petrol to £1 a litre had caused it to take action.

"This date was decided by members as the best possible to ensure those who would normally be working during the week to attend. This action will be initiated at a refinery or storage depot somewhere near you," the statement said.

Article continues
"Anyone wishing to support action is requested to make your way there at the allotted time."

The group of farmers and road hauliers, which has only recently re-formed, said next Saturday's tactics would be a modification of past fuel protests.

"Fuel refinery blockades are a tactic of the past due to the implemented Police Reform Act brought in shortly after 2000 to quell any future uprisings.

"We are not aiming to bring the government to its knees, as we did in 2000; we aim to negotiate directly with those in power unions and associations - peacefully not forcefully - to get our message across."

[Pops]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('LoneSnark', '.')..

[oowolf]

In the US? Most of the sheeple can't comprehend that their PRIMARY REASON for existing is to make money for Henry Ford, Standard Oil, etc... by turning everything on the planet into piles of increasingly-more-worthless crap while destroying said planet as quickly as possible.

Going green? Conservation? will NEVER happen until enforced by dire necessity, and even then most will blame it on anything other than their stupid, destructive way of "living".

alas..

[Pops]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('oowolf', 'a')las..

[Pops]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Shannymara', 'Y')es, Pops. It's called "Take care of yourself." And extend that to your family and other loved ones. I don't know why so many people find that so strange.

[threadbear]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Shannymara', 'Y')es, Pops. It's called "Take care of yourself." And extend that to your family and other loved ones. I don't know why so many people find that so strange.