[sparky]

.
a junkie has some perception of reality ,
it's just that the urge to get the next fix override his common sense
the TV viewer is transported in an imaginary world where there is only an imaginary reality
there is no more common sense

[Newfie]

The Matrix, not the phony slomo crap, the premis that we live in a make believe world of false images.

[onlooker]

Why Are America's Farmers Killing Themselves in Record Numbers?
My theory is the combination of economic distress, witnessing unsustainable practices in Agriculture and maybe poor health from exposure to pesticides could all be contributing
http://economichardship.org/archive//aj ... 70ppbqq74j

[evilgenius]

I don't think that you guys who want to retire in the sticks have any idea what it's like to get old. I see it almost every day. I work around those people. You won't be out chopping wood. What you had best think about is what kind of help you can get in rural Methville. There's one in every state, even the one you want to move to. Small towns with any notion of success won't have any room for you. There, you had better contribute or die. Their model doesn't include you.

Speaking of not being included, this country ought to face the dissatisfaction of its young now, while there is still time for you soon to be oldsters to have a shot at getting the help you'll need when the time comes. Just because the best place to get that help will be in the cities doesn't mean it will exist. The millennials have a lot of resentment for your generation, and they will eventually be in charge,- right about the time you are the most vulnerable. We've treated our young the way that unions have treated theirs, as sacrifices. When you protect the old and don't think about the young you fail down the road. In this case failing means not having what it takes to support the heaviest of the lot, the oldsters, when the time comes.

[Outcast_Searcher]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('evilgenius', 'I') don't think that you guys who want to retire in the sticks have any idea what it's like to get old. I see it almost every day. I work around those people. You won't be out chopping wood. What you had best think about is what kind of help you can get in rural Methville. There's one in every state, even the one you want to move to. Small towns with any notion of success won't have any room for you. There, you had better contribute or die. Their model doesn't include you.

Speaking of not being included, this country ought to face the dissatisfaction of its young now, while there is still time for you soon to be oldsters to have a shot at getting the help you'll need when the time comes. Just because the best place to get that help will be in the cities doesn't mean it will exist. The millennials have a lot of resentment for your generation, and they will eventually be in charge,- right about the time you are the most vulnerable.

[Ibon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('evilgenius', 'I') don't think that you guys who want to retire in the sticks have any idea what it's like to get old. I

[Outcast_Searcher]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ibon', '
')Being a benevolent patron is working for us. $ 12 a day is the average salary for ranch hands here who chop our wood, clear our trails, harvest our coffee, clean out ditches, repair river crossings after heavy rains.

We treat them with respect and humble ourselves in gratefulness for the calories they burn every day in their hard labor to keep our operation going.

[Cog]

Ibon is not bound by US labor laws in Panama. While not a princely sum, his pay rate is pretty much in line with a laborer on a ranch down there.

[Newfie]

Ibon,
You are speaking from your perspective. What about th perspective of the laborour? What is it like for him to get old?

[yellowcanoe]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ibon', '
')This is not a topic of political divisiveness. Under both Obama and Trump deportations have grown. Obama deported while talking sweet. Trump deports while demonizing immigrants. In either case, this has been bad for American farmers.

[Ibon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Newfie', 'I')bon,
You are speaking from your perspective. What about th perspective of the laborour? What is it like for him to get old?

[Ibon]

To Newfie's question about what happens to laborers here when they get old I can answer this pretty accurately. They return to their home villages, they get basic health care provided by the state. They are held by extended families and their children.. The minute they get any complicated medical condition they usually surrender to the consequences and often perish. There is no resentment, no anger that the state has not provided for them. In fact, most elderly sick people would not dream of having their children go into debt to treat them. There is a humility here that Americans have lost, both on the political right and left. Entitlement American style knows no political party, they are both spoiled beyond any metric that is relevant to what we as a species has to face as we go into overshoot moving forward.

My wife's mother in the Philippines suffered a stroke, thee doctor sent her home, she lived for 7 days and perished. I have friends here in Panama whose folks died also of a stroke in the same fashion. My mother in the US suffered a major stroke a couple of years ago. She was rushed to the hospital, my mother was 93. A surgeon performed a procedure entering her artery in her leg with an endoscopic device and reached into her brain in order to remove a clot. She partially recovered but fell into a deep depression and suffered complications and a painful passing several months later. The doctor told us at the time of her stroke that at her age a stroke like this almost always represents the beginning of a steep decline.

Think about the difference of how folks in a developing country deal with this compared to the US. My mother suffered several months of severe post stroke depression and medical complications. Hundreds of thousands of dollars paid out by medicare and her health insurance.

Wouldn't it have been much better had the hospital just sent my mother home after her stroke and let her die within the next week as I have witnessed here in Panama, Philippines and several other places where the local culture does not suffer from the disease of entitlement.

[jedrider]

Ibon. That's what I was describing, how CRAZY our medical system/health care delivery is. As you say, there is an intersection of entitlement and just being spoiled. It's like the Matrix. We've created a Matrix and it is completely illogical and now completely financed by debt that has been misinterpreted as wealth. Woe is our children who inherit this mess.

[onlooker]

I think the discussions here are zeroing in on the dysfunctions of this hyper monetary society which is the US including the helplessness of people teetered to this monetary system. Directing myself towards the original post, what may compel people to finally end their lives is this sense of helplessness. Whether it be farmers, or rural folk or city dwellers, all feel it if they do not and cannot attain a reasonable income.

Taking a Macro view, we as a species have drifted so far now from tenable conditions to sustain all of us, that it is quite excruciating to witness, helplessness on a grand scale. Whether it be beggars in third world cities, or government handout beneficiaries in rich world countries. Living off the land, living via the skills to survive in the wilderness is a rare capability now among us. What is even more tragic is that even if many of us could gain these skills, some wilderness areas are bereft of the original bounty now to sustain any substantial number of people. And of course they're are alot less wildness areas at present than ever before. In serves no purpose to dissect if one group is taking advantage of another. People around the world are limited in what they can do to sustain themselves. I applaud you Ibon, but not everyone can do what you have done. They either do not have the money or the knowhow. One can only hope we all meet our end quickly and relatively painlessly as the situation deteoriates around this planet.

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('onlooker', 'O')ne can only hope we all meet our end quickly and relatively painlessly as the situation deteoriates around this planet.

[Ibon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '
')We can hope that some regions and countries deteriorate faster then others,.

Cheers!

[Newfie]

I hope for degrowth, does that count?

[onlooker]

So why doesn't hoping that we all die fairly quick and painless deaths not count? haha

[evilgenius]

I'm talking about how debilitating it can be to get old. I see it every day. People need help to do the simplest things. A lot of the time that help comes from an immigrant. It doesn't have to. It's just the reality that immigrants wind up in those jobs. It's funny because those industries charge a lot per month. They could certainly afford to pay enough so that you would see fewer immigrants. But the immigrants are more than capable. They're just as good at what they do as people born in the country would be. There is no premium available, therefore, for being a native. That is probably because of the true business nature of those places.

Worse than how much help people need is how boring those places are where people retire. There is very little in them that brings meaning into those people's lives. Unless the people smoke they probably don't even have a relationship with what goes on outdoors. They don't pay their employees to interact with the residents as much as they pay them to do the dirty work. The people pretty much pay all that money to be warehoused. They aren't getting much of an elder experience out of it. There are good places that are better to be in, I see both, but you would have a harder time finding those in a rural setting.

Sorry if my other post sounded alarmist or accusatory. I just wanted to point something out that some commenters seemed to be overlooking.

[Ibon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('evilgenius', 'I')'m talking about how debilitating it can be to get old. I see it every day. People need help to do the simplest things.