Peak Oil
Donate Bitcoin

Donate Paypal


PeakOil is You

PeakOil is You

Richest 2% own half the world's wealth

What's on your mind?
General interest discussions, not necessarily related to depletion.
Post a reply

Re: Richest 2% own half the world's wealth

Unread postby TommyJefferson » Mon 11 Dec 2006, 12:30:22

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tyler_JC', 'I')t all comes down to relative cost of living. And a purely income based measurement cannot account for that.


That is true. Many people in this thread seem to not know that. A true measure of wealth is not always how many Federal Reserve Notes you have attached to your name.

The "Richest 2%" graphs are cute, and make us feel better, but if push came to shove, I'd rather be sitting with my extended family well-armed on 9 acres of good land in Oregon than atop a New York penthouse with my trophy wife and Goldman-Sachs financial statements showing I owned $3.5million in "assets".
Conform . Consume . Obey .
User avatar
TommyJefferson
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude
 
Posts: 1757
Joined: Thu 19 Aug 2004, 03:00:00
Location: Texas and Los Angeles
Top

Re: Richest 2% own half the world's wealth

Unread postby smallpoxgirl » Mon 11 Dec 2006, 13:58:12

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TommyJefferson', 'T')hose behaviors are generally illegal. We should work to make every person equal under the law.
First off Tommy, "we" can't work to do crap because "we" don't make the laws. Our only role in the political process is sitting passively on our couches watching sitcoms while corporations and politicians rob us blind. Secondly, it is laughable to assert that lying and deceitful dishonest behavior by politicians and CEO's is punishable. Politicians and CEO's make the laws. Of course they aren't going to craft laws that might punish them. Petty crimes get punished. Really big ones get you a $5 million year end bonus or a seat on the House Ways and Means committee. Criminal justice in the US can be very well summed up by the old expression "Don't steal. The government hates competition."
"We were standing on the edges
Of a thousand burning bridges
Sifting through the ashes every day
What we thought would never end
Now is nothing more than a memory
The way things were before
I lost my way" - OCMS
User avatar
smallpoxgirl
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 7258
Joined: Mon 08 Nov 2004, 04:00:00
Top

Re: Richest 2% own half the world's wealth

Unread postby threadbear » Mon 11 Dec 2006, 14:34:34

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TommyJefferson', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tyler_JC', 'I')t all comes down to relative cost of living. And a purely income based measurement cannot account for that.


That is true. Many people in this thread seem to not know that. A true measure of wealth is not always how many Federal Reserve Notes you have attached to your name.

The "Richest 2%" graphs are cute, and make us feel better, but if push came to shove, I'd rather be sitting with my extended family well-armed on 9 acres of good land in Oregon than atop a New York penthouse with my trophy wife and Goldman-Sachs financial statements showing I owned $3.5million in "assets".


You'd rather be sitting on your 9 acres with a small arsenal, than holed up in a penthouse with the entire police apparatus of the local, state and federal govt protecting you?

If safety is your sole concern, become a Sicilian Mafia Don or a corporate CEO and go for the penthouse. :lol:
User avatar
threadbear
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 7577
Joined: Sat 22 Jan 2005, 04:00:00
Top

Re: Richest 2% own half the world's wealth

Unread postby TommyJefferson » Mon 11 Dec 2006, 14:57:50

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('smallpoxgirl', '"')we" can't work to do crap because "we" don't make the laws.


Yes we do. You and I will always have this fundamental disagreement. Whether by commision or ommision, "we" certainly do make the laws.

We determine what are the priorities (perverts, druggies? robber barrons?)
We determine how much funding is spent on law enforcement.
We determine how media influences elections.

Example:

Compare the treatment of this man who altered his opiate script:

http://www.sptimes.com/2006/12/10/Opini ... itho.shtml

...to that of Rush Limbaugh and Jeb Bush's daughter, who did essentially the same thing.

That disparity occurs exactly because Bible-Thumping NeoCon Consumabot Fatassed SportsFans want it that way, a . k . a . "WE"
Conform . Consume . Obey .
User avatar
TommyJefferson
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude
 
Posts: 1757
Joined: Thu 19 Aug 2004, 03:00:00
Location: Texas and Los Angeles
Top

Re: Richest 2% own half the world's wealth

Unread postby threadbear » Mon 11 Dec 2006, 15:19:54

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TommyJefferson', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('smallpoxgirl', '"')we" can't work to do crap because "we" don't make the laws.



That disparity occurs exactly because Bible-Thumping NeoCon Consumabot Fatassed SportsFans want it that way, a . k . a . "WE"


The radical bible thumping types actually represent a minority, Jefferson. It's a fairly large minority, that can be effectively controlled through propagandists for the elite, who gain the fundy's support by fooling them into thinking that their best interests dovetail with their own.

In a true democratic state, mergers and acquistions that have occurred under the FCC, would NEVER have been allowed and the twisted version of reality that the right wing hammers home, would be diluted down.

In a different media atmoshpere, the fundys might be able to understand that they are actually subverting their own best interests by supporting the neo-cons.

It' a bit wrong headed to assume that anyone can make free choices and form reasonable opinions if they're not exposed to a free market place of ideas and opinions, through the mainstream media.

Democracy, which was never strong in America, died when FCC deregulation went into effect. Bill Clinton presided over that one, curse his corrupt little neo-liberal heart.
User avatar
threadbear
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 7577
Joined: Sat 22 Jan 2005, 04:00:00
Top

Re: Richest 2% own half the world's wealth

Unread postby mmasters » Mon 11 Dec 2006, 15:56:01

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TommyJefferson', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tyler_JC', 'I')t all comes down to relative cost of living. And a purely income based measurement cannot account for that.


That is true. Many people in this thread seem to not know that. A true measure of wealth is not always how many Federal Reserve Notes you have attached to your name.

The "Richest 2%" graphs are cute, and make us feel better, but if push came to shove, I'd rather be sitting with my extended family well-armed on 9 acres of good land in Oregon than atop a New York penthouse with my trophy wife and Goldman-Sachs financial statements showing I owned $3.5million in "assets".

FYI you need 10 million to open an account with Goldman (used to work there)
User avatar
mmasters
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 2272
Joined: Sun 16 Apr 2006, 03:00:00
Location: Mid-Atlantic
Top

Re: Richest 2% own half the world's wealth

Unread postby smallpoxgirl » Mon 11 Dec 2006, 17:45:48

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TommyJefferson', 'Y')es we do. You and I will always have this fundamental disagreement. Whether by commision or ommision, "we" certainly do make the laws.
I don't neccessarily disagree that we could, but we don't. If we wanted to influence politics it would require a significant investment of energy and abeyance of personal safety. Pulling a voting booth lever every four years does not make you a participant in the political process.

The reality is that people are what people are. So, instead of participating, we sit on the couch sucking beers and watching NFL. That's where EnergyUnlimited is absolutely right. Most people are more than happy to have you break into their house, steal their silverware, and rape their wife as long as you wear a three piece suit while doing it and you don't walk infront of the TV while the game is on.
"We were standing on the edges
Of a thousand burning bridges
Sifting through the ashes every day
What we thought would never end
Now is nothing more than a memory
The way things were before
I lost my way" - OCMS
User avatar
smallpoxgirl
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 7258
Joined: Mon 08 Nov 2004, 04:00:00
Top

Re: Richest 2% own half the world's wealth

Unread postby dissimulo » Mon 11 Dec 2006, 17:53:08

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('smallpoxgirl', 'M')ost people are more than happy to have you break into their house, steal their silverware, and rape their wife as long as you wear a three piece suit while doing it and you don't walk infront of the TV while the game is on.


Which is why it only makes sense to gain whatever advantage you can over these people. If they can't motivate themselves to seek better circumstances, I'm certainly not going to do it for them.
With a farewell scream of escaping steam, the boiler bows to the Diesel;
The Iron Horse has run its course and we ride a chromium weasel
-Ogden Nash
User avatar
dissimulo
Lignite
Lignite
 
Posts: 348
Joined: Wed 01 Jun 2005, 03:00:00
Top

Re: Richest 2% own half the world's wealth

Unread postby PenultimateManStanding » Mon 11 Dec 2006, 22:36:30

Democracy is dead. It's time for an Emperor. The only problem is there aren't any Ceasars at hand.
User avatar
PenultimateManStanding
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 11363
Joined: Sun 28 Nov 2004, 04:00:00
Location: Neither Here Nor There
Top

Re: Richest 2% own half the world's wealth

Unread postby EnergyUnlimited » Tue 12 Dec 2006, 06:05:46

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('basil_hayden', '[')url=http://www.globalrichlist.com/]Global Rich List[/url]

If you're posting here, you ARE one of the top 2%...

I would contest validity of this simple "richness test".

Many high earners have huge debt to serve and plenty of other obligations, what can make them really POOR.
Even poorer, than a guy who earns say $10 or 20 thousands a year and yet free of these obligations.
One of my friends is earning well in excess of GBP 80 000 a year and he is really struggling.
I only get annually a fraction of that, but no debt to pay, no rent to pay etc, and I feel somehow richer than this guy, and yes, I have far better property, than he does...but he has far better car, than I do.

Shortly, income is only one factor of being rich.
Assets and debt are equally important.
This is why we have so many "poor millionaires".
User avatar
EnergyUnlimited
Light Sweet Crude
Light Sweet Crude
 
Posts: 7537
Joined: Mon 15 May 2006, 03:00:00
Top

Re: Richest 2% own half the world's wealth

Unread postby basil_hayden » Tue 12 Dec 2006, 10:59:02

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EnergyUnlimited', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('basil_hayden', '[')url=http://www.globalrichlist.com/]Global Rich List[/url]

If you're posting here, you ARE one of the top 2%...

I would contest validity of this simple "richness test".

Many high earners have huge debt to serve and plenty of other obligations, what can make them really POOR.
Even poorer, than a guy who earns say $10 or 20 thousands a year and yet free of these obligations.
One of my friends is earning well in excess of GBP 80 000 a year and he is really struggling.
I only get annually a fraction of that, but no debt to pay, no rent to pay etc, and I feel somehow richer than this guy, and yes, I have far better property, than he does...but he has far better car, than I do.

Shortly, income is only one factor of being rich.
Assets and debt are equally important.
This is why we have so many "poor millionaires".


Some of you would miss the point even if it were stuck directly up your ass. Contest away, I can't guarantee the model's validity either, but it got the point across to me. Struggling day to day and I'm in the top 2%? Something's wrong with this picture.
User avatar
basil_hayden
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude
 
Posts: 1581
Joined: Mon 08 Aug 2005, 03:00:00
Location: CT, USA
Top

Re: Richest 2% own half the world's wealth

Unread postby Doly » Tue 12 Dec 2006, 11:27:48

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EnergyUnlimited', '
')Shortly, income is only one factor of being rich.
Assets and debt are equally important.
This is why we have so many "poor millionaires".


My mother used to say: "I wish I owed millions". Because only rich people can owe millions.

If you have managed to be in really deep debt, your lifestyle is certainly the one of a really rich person. A poor farmer in Africa could not owe lots of money, no matter how hard he wanted to. He would exchange his lifestyle for one of a debt-ridden Westerner any time.
User avatar
Doly
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 4370
Joined: Fri 03 Dec 2004, 04:00:00
Top

Re: Richest 2% own half the world's wealth

Unread postby EnergyUnlimited » Tue 12 Dec 2006, 14:07:10

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Doly', '
')My mother used to say: "I wish I owed millions". Because only rich people can owe millions.

For the reason of similar mindset 2% of richest already own 50% of wealth (please note, that your actual annual income has often not much to do with wealth owning, those are more and more separated issues as time pass).
For the reason of exactly the same mindset (accepted way of life) it will not take long, before 0.2% of richest will own 90% of the "wealth total".
Hence I had stated before, that most of peoples are not fit to own any wealth, only huge mortgage and credit card bill to pay.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')f you have managed to be in really deep debt, your lifestyle is certainly the one of a really rich person.

I would rather say, that if you have managed into really deep debt, than you are not fit to own any money or wealth at all.
This is often (albeit not always) an evidence of deep finnancial incompetence.
Pretending to be rich does not make you actually rich (unless you intend to commit some fraud and you succeed...).

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A') poor farmer in Africa could not owe lots of money, no matter how hard he wanted to. He would exchange his lifestyle for one of a debt-ridden Westerner any time.

Better compare alike with alike.
Lets say, compare 2 westerners, one with $100 000 of net annual income and $ 8000 monthly debt service expenses (mortgage, credit cards, personal loans) with a guy of $ 30 000 net annual income and $ 50 monthly debt service expenses.
Lets assume that they live in 2 identical properties on the opposite sides of the same road.
Which one is richer?
User avatar
EnergyUnlimited
Light Sweet Crude
Light Sweet Crude
 
Posts: 7537
Joined: Mon 15 May 2006, 03:00:00
Top

Re: Richest 2% own half the world's wealth

Unread postby Specop_007 » Tue 12 Dec 2006, 16:01:48

Wow, I had no idea so many people failed basic Econ.

Well, lets cut to the heart of the problem. The true question here for all the jelly beans.

How many people really are bothered by the fact that 2% own half the worlds wealth.

For bonus points, after answering this tell us your yearly income.




As for this, I only grabbed on to it because oh my, the truth is so different that what we wish isnt it?

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('NEOPO', 'T')otal bullshit.

When was the last time you had a little science experiment and redistributed the wealth to see wether or not it would fall back into the hands of the current elite??

Thats right - NEVER.
Say it again - NEVER...
You simply do not know that to be true yet you state it as if it was one of your scientific laws.....

Fucking elitist.......


Total bullshit is right actually.
Look at the history of lottery winnings, and look how many end up BANKRUPT within 5 years.Look at all the trust fund babies who blow through their parents couple of million in a couple of years.

Yes, theres MANY cases of the poor or middle class coming into large sums of money. The end result is almost always the same.

As you say...

Fucking idiot liberal......
"Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster, and if you gaze into the
Abyss, the Abyss gazes also into you."

Ammo at a gunfight is like bubblegum in grade school: If you havent brought enough for everyone, you're in trouble
User avatar
Specop_007
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 5586
Joined: Thu 12 Aug 2004, 03:00:00
Top

Re: Richest 2% own half the world's wealth

Unread postby Specop_007 » Tue 12 Dec 2006, 17:03:07

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', 'I') can't resist when specialty_cop_007 opens his trap. Wealth redistribution has never occurred because the Masters can always call on a cadre of expendable, deluded little pinheads to do their dirty work of sowing dissent. All the Masters need do is promise them purity and a place in heaven. The very definition of fasism.


Funny, as much as I opened my trap you have yet to provide even ONE exmaple of a lower class person winning the lottery and doing well later in life because of it.

Once again, your long on personal attacks and short on facts.

As for the issue of wealth redistribution, it doesnt matter. The lottery is a perfect framework of what WOULD happen. In fact, if one person gets lots of money we call it a lottery, if half the country did we'd call it wealth redistibution. The end result would be the same.
"Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster, and if you gaze into the
Abyss, the Abyss gazes also into you."

Ammo at a gunfight is like bubblegum in grade school: If you havent brought enough for everyone, you're in trouble
User avatar
Specop_007
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 5586
Joined: Thu 12 Aug 2004, 03:00:00
Top

Re: Richest 2% own half the world's wealth

Unread postby mmasters » Tue 12 Dec 2006, 17:09:06

The distribute the wealth argument is a bit of a silly one.

It holds true if you bar old money from the picture and just account for people's current financial behavior which doesn't tend to change much. Some guy that blows all he has on the coolest stuff ain't bound to change, neither is the guy that pack rats all his money away.

But if you take some Rockefeller child with 300 million dollar trust and make him flat broke I don't think that 300 million is going to magically return to him. Even a Donald Trump or a Bill Gates, I don't think there's any guarantee they are going to encounter the right circumstances to make it successful like they did all over again regardless of all that "be successful" virtues they peddle.

However if you take a debt based money system it's guaranteed that over time the wealth will concentrate at the top and a ruling class will emerge (as has happened with every privately owned central bank that has been around for some period of time). So in that sense the wealth distribution will repeat itself. But that's assuming a debt based money system is all there is. Credit based money systems, for example, have an entirely different distribution model. As do demmurage based money systems (the opposite of an interest based system).
User avatar
mmasters
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 2272
Joined: Sun 16 Apr 2006, 03:00:00
Location: Mid-Atlantic
Top

Re: Richest 2% own half the world's wealth

Unread postby NEOPO » Tue 12 Dec 2006, 17:23:21

I am blinded by the light of your holy presence sire.

As if someone couldnt realize the system was wrong even though they were benefitting from it and still want to do something about it.

Aaron Russo - freedom to fascism...........

Who writes the stories for your eyes about the man or woman who wins the lottery and then keeps working?

I am sure we can find many more links to the loser stories rather then the winner stories as this is what dirty laundry consists of and we like dirty laundry besides the fact that we all support and are part of a power sucking system thus the increasing discrepancy between rich and poor which is an absolute proven fact that was very pronounced prior to the last depression and is very pronounced currently yet my words probably fall on deaf ears and I am nearly positive that your eyes are well glazed by now and that you may need a nappy nap 8)

Imagine my embarrassment when I realized that I was near the top of the illuminati pyramid of power which as we all know is just and true and especially so because we are the ones currently being served.

Now allow me to sink to your level for a minute there pilgrim.

Not on your best day you spindly armed lil' bitch of my mothers bitch.
Not on your fucking best day - not yesterday - not TODAY - not tomorrow!
Not tackle football, Not chess, not armed combat, nor thumb wrestling!
I am prettier, smarter and more loved and above all I could probably knock your sorry ass out with one flick of my big hairy wang!! 8)
<insane laughter sounds dubbed over tool's aenima song>
Lil fella needs to learn to stay on the porch or at work on the phone 8)
It is easier to enslave a people that wish to remain free then it is to free a people who wish to remain enslaved.
User avatar
NEOPO
Permanently Banned
 
Posts: 3588
Joined: Sun 15 May 2005, 03:00:00
Location: THE MATRIX
Top
PreviousNext
Post a reply

Return to Open Topic Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 18 guests