[donstewart]

Adam B
Put down your slide rule and read this message from George Mobus, former computer science and systems science professor in Washington:

'Several thoughtful people I know who have been concerned about the future are now voicing a kind of despair for the future. The evidence for the build up to collapse is now so evident that anyone with half a brain and a bit of knowledge about the history of civilizations can see the end in sight.

On the other hand, and to leave you on a high note, the collapse of the current cultural system (neoliberal capitalism, profit maximization, revolving debt financing, the impacts on the education system, etc.) is a good thing. When I say unfixable, I mean just that. Some systems are fixable, or adjustable so that they work better in time. This one we live in is neither. It is so full of positive feedback loops that reinforce destructive behaviors that there is very little that can be done to break out without that very act destroying the interlocking processes and thus, itself bringing about collapse. What we need to do is see the bright side of this. For one, it will significantly slow down the human-caused forcing of the climate (other natural feedbacks aside this will be a very positive development.)

Once the rotten old system is debris it will be possible to reset human values (many of which are learned) and start fresh. We won't have the high tech gadgets to help us back to the kind of life many of us live now. But, so what. We will get a chance to start over, and hopefully do it better next time. At least that is my hope on this day of turning.'

It isn't necessary for engineers to lecture people on the difference between 'burning' and 'combustion'. Sometimes engineers can think serious thoughts about Life, the Universe, and Everything.

The difference between the sunny outlook of Adrian Bejan and the gloomy outlook from George Mobus cannot be explained away by some imaginary Peak Oil Doomer Conspiracy. But the challenge I gave you was essentially what George said in his final words...rebuilding humanity from scratch. If you don't like that assignment, pick a different one. But make it include humans...not just combustibles. (You will also notice that George is using a complex system model.)

Don Stewart

[AdamB]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('donstewart', 'A')dam B
You are way too focused on your slide rule to understand anything that Bejan says.
Don Stewart

[AdamB]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AdamB', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', 'I')t's not the nominal energy, it's the embodied energy that counts.

[AdamB]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('donstewart', '
')It isn't necessary for engineers to lecture people on the difference between 'burning' and 'combustion'. Sometimes engineers can think serious thoughts about Life, the Universe, and Everything.

[EdwinSm]

Sorry (to the general public) that this is a off topic.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AdamB', 'M')ay I recommend you focus less on semantics, more on writing what you mean, and using words that demonstrate that you are THINKING about the topic

[Subjectivist]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AdamB', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', 'I')t's not the nominal energy, it's the embodied energy that counts.

[AdamB]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EdwinSm', 'S')orry (to the general public) that this is a off topic.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AdamB', 'M')ay I recommend you focus less on semantics, more on writing what you mean, and using words that demonstrate that you are THINKING about the topic

[AdamB]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AdamB', '
')Answering a question with a question is amusing, but also proves my point. Let us know when an advocate of embodied energy, you, use that mtric in any way when going about your daily life. Then we can discuss its value because until it has some to at the very least you, it is unlikely to have any value to anyone else.

[asg70]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AdamB', '
')...negativity? On a site full of, as asg70 likes to say, perma-DOOMERS? (emphasis mine).

[onlooker]

Yep and all the economic machinations and tech breakthroughs will not change the thermodynamic status going forward. The Universe does NOT provide any free lunches

[AdamB]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', 'A')dam, a real simple real-world solution to an obvious global hydrocarbon production dilemma . . .

[AdamB]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('onlooker', 'Y')ep and all the economic machinations and tech breakthroughs will not change the thermodynamic status going forward. The Universe does NOT provide any free lunches

[asg70]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', 'y')ou lost me at "peak oil is a crock"

[BahamasEd]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'Y')ou shouldn't be so lost. After all, world refiners are clogged with oil.

Only hopeless ETP zealots can manage the cognitive dissonance of a glut coexisting with oil depletion.

[Cog]

Too expensive for whom? Its being bought right now.