[Graeme]

Before I leave this thread, I'd like to reiterate that the purpose of doing research into interstellar space travel is because it could lead to unexpected spinoffs for humans living on Earth as I pointed out in my earlier posts in this thread. Marc Millis from NASA mentioned this in the initial post:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')n the meantime, the progress we make to try to turn all this stuff into a reality will result in profound improvements in energy conversion, transportation, self-supporting life support — things that would be very useful for life on Earth.

[Keith_McClary]

Here's one of the "spin-offs" referenced, but it's not clear what NASA contributed:
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'F')reeze drying
In planning for the long-duration Apollo missions, NASA conducted extensive research into space food. One of the techniques developed in 1938 by Nestle was freeze drying. In the United States, Action Products later commercialized this technique for other foods, concentrating on snack food. The foods are cooked, quickly frozen, and then slowly heated in a vacuum chamber to remove the ice crystals formed by the freezing process. The final product retains 98%[citation needed] of its nutrition and weighs much less than before drying. The ratio of weight before and after drying depends strongly on the particular food item but a typical freeze-dried weight is 20% of the original weight. Today, one of the benefits of this advancement in food preservation includes simple nutritious meals available to handicapped and otherwise homebound senior adults unable to take advantage of existing meal programs.[12][20][21]

[AgentR11]

Spinoffs...
reliable ICBMs?

I'm actually a little less negative on this concept of spinoffs than I used to be. Seeing my kid light up like a sparkler upon seeing a JPL music video overview of Voyager I/II was really impressive. It worked really well to turn a ridiculous (and funny) line of conversation about space travel into a discussion about how rockets work; scale and size in our solar system, etc.

Had a bad effect of getting them interested in Astronomy (=starvation) but I think I successfully sold the notion that to do Astronomy successful you have to double up with a useable an additional discipline as well! (evil Dad!)

[RedStateGreen]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('peripato', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('RedStateGreen', 'I') think generation ships are a possibility. We're talking 1500 years to Proxima at 1 g, assuming there are decent planets there ... big assumption. Basically a one-way crapshoot.

Then there's the issues of how you gonna feed these people, etc. You'd have to have a self-sustaining system, etc.

It's basically moot until you can prove you can get people to Mars (about 2 years) and have someone survive the trip.

[Graeme]

A limitless power source for the indefinite future

http://www.kurzweilai.net/a-limitless-p ... ite-future

[The Practician]

http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/ev ... power3.htm

Checked it out. Looks pretty ridiculous. Guarantee it will make much more sense to just use less electricity than have massive solar arrays in space beaming microwaves to massive "rentennas" here on earth. The Howstuffworks article didn't say exactly how big these earth based rentennas would be, but it did mention that they could be "mesh like, to allow sun and rain to reach the earths surface. " Big enough to be worrying about whether or not rain or sun is going to be hitting the ground? that sounds pretty big...unreasonably and impossibly big, even.

[Serial_Worrier]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('The Practician', 'Y')es, Graeme, we all know how "successful" our species is when it comes to using up resources at unsustainable rates and then moving on to greener pastures. So tell us Graeme, wheres the next planet? you got your advance ticket on the first flight off this rock?

[The Practician]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Serial_Worrier', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('The Practician', 'Y')es, Graeme, we all know how "successful" our species is when it comes to using up resources at unsustainable rates and then moving on to greener pastures. So tell us Graeme, wheres the next planet? you got your advance ticket on the first flight off this rock?

[Graeme]

There is an alternative to microwave transmission: [url=crazyengineers]lasers[/url].

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')ccording to a study conducted by IAA for three years comprising of ten nations, it was found that such a solution is both technically and economically feasible. The idea is to establish satellites in particular orbits, which are capable of harvesting the solar energy in space. The energy will then be converted into electricity in the satellite itself and transmitted to earth via LASERS or large microwave transmitting antennas.

Presently talking about the shortcomings in the solar energy harvesters across the world, it is a common experience that they are not reliable. This is because the intensity of sun varies with place, time and season. The power from satellites can be used 24X7 without interruption and may be a solution of unreliability. The project of space based powerplants may sound easy however researchers will have to fight a hard way for it. The initial funding may be a problem. It can be solved by the funding through private sector and the governments of the two interested namely India and U.S. IAA however did not give the exact figures as to how much funding will be needed.

[Graeme]

I saw this article this morning. It caught my eye and I thought I would share it with you.

Elon Musk says he will put millions of people on Mars

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'M')usk declared recently that he could put a human on Mars in 10 to 20 years' time. It is a remarkable claim, yet even more astonishingly Musk tells me that he could do it for $5 billion, and possibly as little as $2 billion - a snip when you consider that the International Space Station (ISS) has cost at least $100 billion to build and operate, or that $2 billion is roughly the cost of launching four space shuttle missions.


Musk doesn't just want to stop at one human. In his Heinlein prize acceptance speech, he said he wants to put 10,000 people on Mars. Musk rarely makes public statements merely for effect but a call for 10,000 would-be Martians is extraordinary, even by his standards. When I query him on this point, he pauses. Is he reconsidering? Yes... but, as with so much else about Musk, not in a predictable way. "Ultimately we don't really want 10,000 people on Mars," he says, after letting the pause linger a few seconds more. "We want millions."

[AgentR11]

Go and stay...
works.
Its a completely different scale of math. I hope he makes the attempt, cause it'll piss off a lot of the "go and safely return" industry. They say nothing beats a human geologist whacking on a rock.

I say, nothing beats a human geologist, whacking on rocks, where he lives.

[dissident]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Graeme', 'I') saw this article this morning. It caught my eye and I thought I would share it with you.

Elon Musk says he will put millions of people on Mars

[Graeme]

We'll have to wait for further announcements from Mr Musk. In the meantime, DARPA has "announced" it's skipper for the "100-year starship" project.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he BBC identified the ex-astronaut as Jemison, based on the text of an unreleased letter from DARPA. It also reported that Jemison's foundation was teaming up with two other groups, Icarus Interstellar and the Foundation for Enterprise Development.

Jemison was the first black woman in space in 1992.
DARPA has not yet publicly announced the selection, and my efforts to contact the agency's representatives have been unsuccessful so far. But after the BBC's story, the report was confirmed on the Centauri Dreams blog by Paul Gilster, who is affiliated with the Tau Zero Foundation. Gilster said Jemison's organization "now takes on the challenge of building a program that can last 100 years, and might one day result in a starship."

Adam Crowl, director of Icarus Interstellar, elaborated in a blog comment:

"... Project Icarus will keep running as it has since 2009, and the end point will be an interstellar probe design, chiefly fusion-propelled in the boost phase. That’s due at some point in 2014.

[Graeme]

The 100-Year Starship Study

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '&')quot;Humanity's adventurous, stubborn, mad and glorious aspiration to reach the stars" is the subject of Physics World's lead feature in January.

Sidney Perkowitz, Candler Professor of Physics Emeritus at Emory University, Atlanta, US, reports from the 100 Year Starship Study (100YSS) conference and discusses the challenges that interstellar travel presents.

With current propulsion technology only able to move spacecraft at 0.005% of the speed of light, a one-way trip to the star system nearest our Sun, Alpha Centauri, would take 80,000 years to travel the four light-years to our nearest stellar neighbours.

Delegates at 100YSS – from ex-astronauts to engineers, artists, students and science-fiction writers – looked at the range of issues facing scientists who would like to make the "mad and glorious aspiration" a reality.

Starting with the development of a rocket engine that can reach high velocity, humans are not short of initiative, but, as Perkowitz describes, even with engines based on photon-powered sails or nuclear fusion, we are still a long way from reaching the speed of light.

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dissident', '
')
Mars is a glorified moon.....Where are they going to get the energy for mining and manufacturing on Mars for the domed cities they will need for millions of people? We'll ship nuclear power plants to Mars to seed development, will we?

[dissident]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Graeme', '[')b]The 100-Year Starship Study

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')Starting with the development of a rocket engine that can reach high velocity, humans are not short of initiative, but, as Perkowitz describes, even with engines based on photon-powered sails or nuclear fusion, we are still a long way from reaching the speed of light.

[dissident]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '
')
You don't need many acres to sustain a population of a few hundred people.

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dissident', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '
')You don't need many acres to sustain a population of a few hundred people.

[EnergyUnlimited]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AgentR11', 'T')here is not now and never will be FTL travel.

As long as humans insist on the stupidity that is "go and safely return" we aren't getting past the moon, and even that is hard as h***.

Change it to "go and stay".
Change the mission success chance to 95% down from 99%..

And we be in business.

But people MUST accept that people die when they travel. Always have, always will. Its really ok.

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dissident', '
')Sci-fi gets around this show stopper by appealing to new and magical physics. Warp bubbles, wormholes or hyperspace. They also invoke force fields and other shields that defy modern physics knowledge. It can't be assumed that we know all about physics there is to know, so space travel may be possible in the future. But trying to do this with standard physics is a non-starter.