[threadbear]

PMS, Thought can be influenced by quantum realm, but that realm must ultimately yield to the concrete reality you describe, if persuasion doesn't work.

The glial cells of the brain, long thought to be kind of "brain filler" not particularly consequential, may in the future provide some insight into the mind and it's relationship with other minds. It now looks like the glial cells, though not as 'exciting' as neurons, may perform osmotic quantum functions that we recieve as flashes of intuition. The mind, long regarded as a product of the brain, itself an extension of the macro world that you describe, and housed within the fortress of the skull, may be much more ephemeral than we think.

The practised or talented mind can exert an effect on other minds quite easily, through suggestion. This is facilitated by this quantum realm, as well. Minds working together, for example, cannot stop a nuclear bomb dropped from a plane, but likely can influence the mind of the pilot, remotely, prior to releasing it, or the key govt players who have initiated this action.

But PMS, there is definitely a limit to what the mental realm can accomplish. I can surround myself with all the white light I can summon and walk across an eight lane highway, and still get hit. Why would or how should the quantum realm facilitate pure fantasy, arrogance, and narcissism? We are born here, I "feel" to learn our limits, while maximizing our human potential.

You might find this interesting---mentions Lynn Margulis and has some interesting things to say about the masculinity of traditional science. Of course, along with the emancipation of women, comes a certain emanicaption of thought.



NURTURING: Just as nurturing has been devalued by society, it has also been dismissed in science - even at the cellular level - as uninteresting. For example, the function of glial cells in the brain has largely been ignored, since these "helper" cells were thought just to feed nerve cells and clean up afterwards - playing the "little lady role". Although glial cells are ten times more numerous in the brain than neurons, they have been neglected in favour of studying more active, exciting nerve cells.

This disdain of neuroscientists to study cells that play a mere nutritious role forestalled findings that glial cells participate in communication between the brain and the rest of the body. By moving back and forth between the brain and the body (where they become a type of white blood cell of the immune system), glial cells destroy the myth of the blood-brain barrier - a physiological reflection of the Western belief in the separation of mind and body. Interestingly, the number of glial cells per neuron increases as mammals ascend the phylogenetic scale from mice to humans.

Perhaps an intriguing study of Einstein's brain will nourish interest in glial cells: Marian Diamond, a neuroanatomist at the University of California at Berkeley compared Einstein's brain with eleven other male brains. The only difference she found was that Einstein's had the largest number of glial cells per neuron. The difference was particularly significant in the area associated with the conceptual powers of imagery and complex thinking.

http://www.resurgence.org/resurgence/ar ... epherd.htm

I would go further than many modern researchers and propose that glial cells do more than breach the blood brain barrier.

BTW, I didn't see that movie, just heard about it. Sounds like science twisted to conform to some self flattering, fantastic notions, that have just enough basis in truth to make them dangerous. Perhaps I should withhold judgement until I see it.


Raphel--Hi. You're back. Good to see you back on the board!

[PenultimateManStanding]

The QM ideas per se, uncertainty about position and momentum, etc., could play into the macro world like this perhaps: rigid determinism is impossible because of the uncertainty priciple. Freedom and free will are possible because determinism is proven false (i.e. if you don't know exactly where something is and where its going, you can't really say where it will be in the future). Therefore the ultimate Fate Of Humanity is unknowable as are all of our individual fates, within the broad confines of the general macro statistical certainties. (the glial cells, I've never studied it, interesting. Is it really a case of feminine cells and masculine cells?)

[TWilliam]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', 'I') think perhaps where you get irritated, as I do, is with the idea that "you create your own reality". If I created my own reality I would defy gravity, surround myself with several house-boys, live in a loft in Manhattan and eat chocolate all day without gaining weight. "Creating your own reality" is a slogan tailor made for lazy thinkers. There's just enough truth there, to make it dangerous. The idea that people can have perfect control over their lives has become the philosophical travelling companion for the fascism we see clearly on the horizon. It isn't just fundamentalist Christianity that is cruel beneath a thin veneer of 'niceness'. The "you're just not there yet" crowd is mighty scary too.

[PenultimateManStanding]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TWilliam', '
')What these scientifically applied tools tell us is not that we create what we experience, but that we interpret it, and that we then react or respond to that interpretation.

People often laugh off the statement "this world is an illusion" as so much nonsense, but what the sages are telling us is that it is our interpretations that are false

[EnviroEngr]

TWilliam,

You're at the top of your game tonight, I see....

[PenultimateManStanding]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TWilliam', '
')People often laugh off the statement "this world is an illusion" as so much nonsense, but what the sages are telling us is that it is our interpretations that are false, not that the world is unreal. The definition of "illusion" includes "a misinterpreted perception that is caused by mistaking something present for something it is not". For example, interpreting a material object as "solid", when in fact it is not, as QT attests.

[threadbear]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TWilliam', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', 'I') think perhaps where you get irritated, as I do, is with the idea that "you create your own reality". If I created my own reality I would defy gravity, surround myself with several house-boys, live in a loft in Manhattan and eat chocolate all day without gaining weight. "Creating your own reality" is a slogan tailor made for lazy thinkers. There's just enough truth there, to make it dangerous. The idea that people can have perfect control over their lives has become the philosophical travelling companion for the fascism we see clearly on the horizon. It isn't just fundamentalist Christianity that is cruel beneath a thin veneer of 'niceness'. The "you're just not there yet" crowd is mighty scary too.

[TWilliam]

PMS what we tend to forget is that we're dealing with yet another manifestation of the same phenomenon, namely that what comes to us today is not the clarity that was expressed by those sages, but rather, the interpretations (and translations) handed down to us by those that came after.

One of the fortunate bits of fallout from effective contemplative practice is that one begins to recognize the "message in the metaphor" of these various interpretations. One is no longer "bound by the letter of the law" (and misdirected by it) when one becomes cognizant of "the spirit of the law".

One more example of misinterpretation: one of the better-known and more diversely translated writings from the ancient near east is The Yoga Sutras of Patanjali. This is a collection of aphorisms usually taken as describing a method of attaining higher awareness. But Patanjali was not laying out a path to enlightenment; he was, rather, describing the experience of the enlightened state and it's impacts on perception. The misinterpretation stems from the very first sutra, usually rendered as some varation on the statement, "Now, we shall begin instruction in Yoga". A more accurate translation is "Now, the Teaching of Yoga", which basically sums up the entire experience of Union (the meaning of "Yoga") with one's spiritual essence as having the effect of placing one's awareness fully in the present moment, i.e. The Eternal NOW. The remainder of the sutras delimit the parameters and potential impacts of that experience for the individual; they do not present a roadmap for it's attainment (centuries of misinterpretation notwithstanding)...

Same thing with Christianity, Buddhism, etc.; spiritual teachings about inner awareness, subsequently misinterpreted as being about external behavior...

[PenultimateManStanding]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Raphael', '
')I personally am coming to understand the concept of purity of thought ... leading to discipline of action ... and purpose of movement.
Namaste

[TWilliam]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', 'S')igh*

I was talking about the pop understanding of the term "you create your own reality". I understand the subtleties involved in your interpretation, and agree with you, for the most part, but many of the feeble minded who frequent self-help seminars and new age book stores, don't.

They believe they can 'manifest' anything they desire through the powers of the mind, and beat themselves up if they can't. God help you if you get physically sick and you happen to be in the company of one of these spiritual bullies. You'll get the third degree about 'creating' your illness and all sorts of other useless horsesh**. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing, and a little knowledge twisted in a way that leaves life bereft of real magic and enchantment, but full of bloated egos, is really scary.

[PenultimateManStanding]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TWilliam', '
') Union (the meaning of "Yoga")

[TWilliam]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TWilliam', '
') Union (the meaning of "Yoga")

[threadbear]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TWilliam', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TWilliam', '
') Union (the meaning of "Yoga")

[threadbear]

Raphael, Illness is a karmic college credit we all have to pick up sometime, somewhere, I guess. Though there's plenty of back and forth between realms, it is hard to translate concepts like blame, choice, punishment clearly between them, at least enough to make clear and fitting generalizations. But I hear you, Man.

[Keith_McClary]

Has anyone here actually spent a few hours trying to learn about quantum mechanics? It's not very difficult - you just have to abandon some of your pre-conceived notions.