[Michael_Layden]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Shannymara', '
')I disagree with the poster who suggests you get into anger. Anger can give you a kind of energy, but it is self destructive if you let it become a major focus of your emotional life. I speak from experience. Regardless of how justified it may be, you cripple yourself and injure your body if you allow yourself to get really into your anger. I suggest you try not to remain in that state longer than necessary.

[Hermes]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Doly', 'H')ey, doesn't it give you all this nice warm feeling to have a part in turning a poor doomer kid into a kid that is taking some practical and positive action?

[Pops]

Hermes and Dolly I agree, it doesn’t quite make me ‘warm and fuzzy’ - but between the Fairy believers and the bunker crowd there is middle. And that is especially important for young men trying to decide a course.

To me saying ‘don’t worry’ or ‘I’ll simply kill for what I need’ are flip sides of the same coin – the coin of the easy way out realm.

Anyway LM, sounds like you had a plan lurking behind that angst after all! Good for you.

Of course I recommend the 3 Assessments and Plans threads on the Planning forum as well as the several ‘what job’ type threads.

Moderation in all (or at least most) things, and prepare for everything – including not much.

[Nano]

I live in small, expensive little Holland, with few natural resources and millions of spoiled and materialistic mouths to feed. Plenty of old folks too, and a government that is rooted to the spot with random irrelevant domestic troubles, unable to get a move on with the necessary reform or even minimal preparation for post-oil living.

I got my parents to do what they always wanted, sell their bubbly urban house, get a little one instead and a house and some land in southernwestern france "for vacationing". I'll help them and I'll be there every summer souping things up for oil-independant living and socialising with the locals. I get to keep my current job and I will be content with my simple house and I will pretend business-as-usual, until such time as I feel it would be pleasant to move in with my elderly parents and get some reasonably sustainable business running. I'm using my salary and making friends to that end.

To me, it is all a matter of accepting the inevitable: that one day, maybe in 5-20 years time, 'modern' living will cave-in for the middle class, and it's back to the fields we go. I'll be at most 50 then. It could even be fun. I aim to make it that way. Law and order might break down. It could get tough and bloody. In fact it probably will! Can't be helped, that. Life's an adventure. I only wish I could find a woman to trust me.

[Landmass]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Doly', 'H')ey, doesn't it give you all this nice warm feeling to have a part in turning a poor doomer kid into a kid that is taking some practical and positive action?

[Nano]

I also like this particular thread. I feel I need that fuzzy feeling! No place to get it IRL for me up to now I'm affraid, except from people who love me but maybe secretly think I'm a bit of a lunatic.

Whenever I talk to my friends and family it's always up to me to factually destroy all hope of a prolonged continuation of life at it's current quality level. They don't fully understand the big picture. It pains me to always be the killer of illusory hope of improvement among my loved ones, in order to keep them hopefull in a *realistic* sense and focussed on the matters at hand.

I feel I'm responsible for secureing their continued trust of the need to prepare diligently (each in his own way), and well in *advance* of any tangible symptoms of Peak Oil. I'm also responsible for painting an adventurous, positive picture of living in energy poverty, in order to motivate them. Finally, I'm responsible for the choice and *timely* execution of the necessary actions and financial commitments, so that the feeling of 'acting unwisely" does not arise in them. Sheesh.

I thought earlier that being an engineer made me see Peak Oil more clearly than others, but I am mistaken. Many of the most stoic deniers of Peak Oil among my friends are themselves engineers. Their reaction ranges from "I don't have to prepare because I'll manage on the strength of my skills." to "You're overreacting: Peak Oil just means stuff gets more expensive." Of course one may, and of course it does, but I believe Peak Oil has a way of grinding any energydependant business into the dust sooner or later, and I am dead set on bailing out of that all-together over the next several years.

Finally: it strikes me that the youngsters getting into Peak Oil at this late hour have a trying time ahead of them yet, when I remember all the emotional turmoil I went though once joining www.peakoil.com. There's just so much to learn about PO (and especially it's fascinating history), and there's so much ignorance about it IRL.

I find it a terrible thought that I am actually HOPING that ignorance about PO remains as long as possible, so that I will be able to secure enough land and cheap resources for building my sustainable community.

On the other hand, I have a level of contact with government and planning institutions in my country now, trying to get into the circle of trust.

People will have to die due to PO at some point in my lifetime. I will see to it that it will not be me or mine that have to die.

[threadbear]

Landmass, Many have some dire scenarios for the future. I don't think it's going to be quite as bleak, but have no idea. I see you and your family, sitting in the twilight with a couple of chickens, a candle and a scrabble board.

[madison]

Landmass, you have your youth (and presumably, your health) and your knowledge of what is to come. If you stay out of debt, you have three golden jewels that a 40-year old married man with a mortgage, wife, two kids, two car payments and no clue as to PO, does not have!

[ThinkGeek]

Wow, this post has really helped me to better understand my situation as well. I'm a freshman in High school, and it's just been over a week since I learned of PO from Rolling Stone. The posts in this topic, have for the most part reaffirmed some of my beliefs, and have better helped me to understand my future. However, I'm still not sure about how this will turn out. I've seen a lot of posts about the worst case scenario, but I've also talked to others who have a much more "rational" view of the situation. Just how concerned am I supposed to be about PO? Part of this situation has made me cynical, saying "screw my history finals, they're not going to help me" and another side of the situation has made me get in touch with my inner self, (I just rented 4 Marx Brothers films, and the chick flick "You've got Mail"). One person (on a different site) found this post on Peak Oil.com:

"Every car maker, every government (no matter how evil), every airline, every oil company has motivation to line up and dominate some new fuel source between now and when the situation gets critical. The Free Market will demand it; price is determined by supply and demand. So as the supply goes down and prices go up, demand for cars and plane tickets goes down. There are literally trillions of dollars at steak in finding an alternative fuel in the next 30 or so years.

And we will. That's where the money is. "

I want to have faith in greedy capitalism, and I want to be prepared.

Just knowing about this puts me ahead of many people.

So, just how concerned about this am I supposed to be?

[hymalaia]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Landmass', 'A')nd about the me being fucked comment, I don't think that was meant as literal, especially followed by the talking heads. I don't think I'm fucked. You also mention getting laid, which looks bleak. I don't think birth control will be as prevelant. Maybe I can stock up in advance.

[GD]

Landmass,
Good for you going to uni. When you go, my advice is join a martial arts class. Not just for self-defence purposes, you get a whole lot more. As well as the health and fitness benefits (which you could get doing any sport, really) practicing martial arts opens your mind to the infinite possibilities of your mind and body. You get confidence, yet in a humble way. You learn calmness in times of crisis. (The list goes on...)
So if you do, here's a few things to bear in mind:
1) If it looks flashy and cool, stay away. If it looks dull, then it's realistic, and that's what you need. (Not just my opinion, even people like Bruce Lee offered such advice.)
2) Don't limit yourself to a "punching and kicking" style, or a "grappling, throwing and locking style". Find one (or a combination if necessary) that does it all.
3) In fact, don't depend on any one style. The truth is all martial arts are "the same thing done differently"

[Denny]

Well, the fact that you are recognnizing this situation before so many of your peers puts you ahead of the game.

I think you should learn some survival skills, though I am not so sure of the military extreme. These skills are outside the city life - fishing, hunting, gardening for sure are important skills. Why not consider attending college in a rural environment? Think about the Amish lifetyle, not necessarily as something to adopt, but just to reinforce the fact that in the right location, we can survive by sustainable interaction with nature. If worse does come to worse though, you may see the rise of rural militia units.


You may find gardening inside the city will become more commonplace. I recently read that Cuba has been progressing a lot with urban gardening, for food and fibre and when you consider that so much of the modern tranport system revolves around food transport, that is logical enough. I would not say that Cuba is an ideal civilization either, but considering that they have so little in the way of energy, they do make out okay, life goes on. And, they even manage to survive in a hot country with little energy gobbling air conditioning. (Only two generations ago, the same could be said of hte U.S.A.) Although you do not see too many obese Cubans. (Maybe all our easy lifestyle is not always so good anyway!)

I would not be pessimistic. The most important things in life are not material, they are social. That is why the bible is still relevant today - society's biggest problems, and satisfactions, are not in energy or material, they are spiritual and social ones.

[bobcousins]

Stress is of course a major problem in the Universe today.

I wouldn't worry too much. If collapse occurs extremely quickly, e.g. 30 years, then there is probably nothing we can do to prepare. In a state of complete anarchy, only the lucky will survive. If collapse is more gradual over say 200-300 years, then you have time to adjust and take some limited practical steps. Note that historians refer to "sudden collapse" as taking place over a span of 300 years. It is by no means certain that collapse will occur, a gradual decline could take 500,1000 years or more.

The prime cause of stress is an external problem over which you have no control. There are two ways of dealing with stress. Do something directed towards relieving the problem. In fact it doesn't matter too much if that action is ineffective, but believing that it is, is the important bit. The other way is to simply ignore the problem, pretend it doesn't exist.

Therefore people who apparently are ignoring the problem are applying a valid stress prevention technique. They have quickly identified that there is little they can do about the problem, so really they are better off not knowing about the problem.

The worst case is worrying about things beyond your control. Take whatever steps you can. Then forget it! Enjoy whatever is left.

[Revi]

You are doing just what you should do. Position yourself for the world that's coming, not the one that was. Green thinking and action are going to be the way to go in the next 50 years. Those who take a high energy consumptive path will pay dearly in the next few years. Small scale community based efforts are the way to go. There will be a lot of hoopla, but we are basically the same as the former Soviet Union. We are going to go into a long, slow decline. They went from one of the big consumers of energy to one of the least consumptive in the West. People who know something about small scale agriculture, solar and wind power will be at a cometitive advantage. You may even be able to expand your niche while the rest of the world slides back inexorably every year.

Remember in The Graduate, (a movie from the 60's) "plastics" was the suggestion for Dustin Hoffman to get into. Well "wood" or "wind" or "sun" are the words for the coming century. That's my 2 cents.

[SupplyConcerns]

I'm a college student, so not too demographically different from you. What I'm doing to prepare at this point is spending 6 weeks at a small farm this summer, in order to gain some self-sufficiency skills in the long run. You're fortunate to have this knowledge so early in life, in a way. You're not tied down in a house in the suburbs yet. You should try and psychologically wean yourself from mass culture and the city, and seriously consider living in a smaller, walkable community. I've moved from Seattle to a tiny Ohio town for college, and I actually like it here. You won't miss the traffic. Think outside of the "consensus trance" about what your future life plans can be.

[mohomesteading]

Emotions like fear, anger and worry are natural and should be expected. They keep you alive. However, excessive time spent in those emotions is a waste and can keep you from acting and thinking when necessary to survival and even living your day to day life. I would suggest writing down what gets in your head about Peak Oil and related concerns and then reflect upon possible solutions or preparations needed to ease the problems. I would recommend that you focus on personal solutions for yourself first, then move outward to friends and family focused ones.

Writing down your feelings and thoughts helps you get them out of your head for one and two, the process helps you see what is on your mind and can help you deal with finding solutions.

People have died in the past, people die now every day and people will die in the future. This is regardless of Peak Oil or any other major "end of the world as we know it" senario we are concerned about. What we can try to do is figure out what we have to do that will allow us, and our loved ones, to live as long as we humanly can. We can do nothing more than that.

I would also second ideas already posted, mainly, learn to hunt, fish, garden and also learn to run traplines, harvest wild foods and identify wild medicinal plants in the area where you live and what they are used for. I would also suggest learning to grow heirloom varieties of fruits and vegetables. If you can, but isn't required, is learn animal husbandry skills like birthing livestock and medical care. Also, acquire CPR and first aid skills.

What I would recommend against is trying to wake up the masses about the Peak Oil situation. Those who wish to learn will ask you, the rest prefer to be blind to reality and live in their "endless petroleum, endless consumerism economy" world. What you can do is learn what you can about emergency preparations in general, like for blizzards, floods, wildfires, tornados and other natural disasters that are more on the minds of the general public. If asked, say you are just being prepared for bad weather. If they ask you about Peak Oil or related topics, you can be honest with them. Otherwise, don't waste your good energy trying to enlighten those who shun the wisdom.

In the end, the truth is all you can do is do the best that you can with what you have available and can learn. I'm not an expert, far from it, but I continue to learn all that I can about all I can because what is trivia today may be vital tomorrow.

Lest you think that I am making suggestions I myself don't follow, I will tell you a little about myself. I am 30, living in rural Missouri near the Lake of the Ozarks, a manmade lake with a hydroelectric dam that is also a major tourist area for the state. High gas prices easily cut our local economies in the area towns. I work part time for a local weekly newspaper as a reporter, was doing part time substitute teaching and have opened a gunsmithing business.

I have learned organic gardening from my mother, gaining wild plant knowledge from a Native American family friend, learning hands on about goat, sheep, chicken, turkey, duck and guinea fowl care (I have a few of all of those), am a self-taught hunter and competitive firearms competitor. I know a bit about electrical wiring, plumbing, carpentry, auto repair, small engine repair, and am a creative problem solver. I have two college degrees, a BA in Spanish and Anthropology and a BS in Computers and Information Management. However, the information I gained from those degrees I apply to other areas of my life. When something isn't working, I learn, adapt and overcome. I also know my local area's geology, topography and resources, though I keep adding more knowledge as I find it.

I read and listen to all I can to acquire all the knowledge I can. When I practice what I have learned I gain practical wisdom.

You are taking practical steps to improving yourself by asking questions. Keep it up and learn all you can. Don't give up, no matter how tough and rough things get. If you get made fun of by others, stay your course and do it for yourself. Those who redicule you will either learn and follow or they will die in their ignorance.

[Aaron]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'K')id, you're fucked. Just get used to it. Your life is going to consist of a daily regimen of increasing poverty and depression.

I suggest joining up with some kind of armed militia that will use you for cannon fodder. Get laid while you can, because your short and miserable life will hold no joy at all starting in 2008.

[syrac818]

I have been across this forum a few times before, but have never posted. Reading the posts in this thread, I was compelled to register...

I learned about peak oil almost two months ago, and it has changed me entirely. I have felt many of the emotions, fears, anxieties that the original poster wrote about, and knew exactly what he was coming from Exactly. It was invaluable to read many of your responses, thank you.

I'll try to keep this short, as I'm sure nobody wants this board to turn into one gigantic therapy session. I am 25 years old, with a good job, a small condo, new car, all of the things I previously considered important for happiness. Within a matter of days, all of that changed. I found myself understanding what was really important to me and what wasn't. Probably the brightest spot of this has been that I have come to value those who I love more than ever. The darkest has been imagining these people suffering should it all fall apart.

Soon after learning about peak oil, I fell into something of a depression. I went from being tremendously together to a wreck. People around me began noticing a significant change, and I found myself constantly obsessing over the worst of the doomsday scenarios. One day I was petting my cat, and found myself wondering if the local animal shelter would put him to sleep if I couldn't find food to feed him. At that point, I started to realize that dwelling in the doom of it all was both taking me away from enjoying the present day and keeping me from preparing for the future.

A few things that I'm doing to move forward:

*Started discussing the threat and concerns of peak oil openly with my family/friends.

*Joined a local Peak Oil Awarness group in the city

*Signed up for local organic gardening classes, along with an education tour of the Permaculture Institute. This has been very helpful for me, as it has been an active step towards post carbon skills.

*Began volunteering for the Center for Urban Education of Sustianable Agriculture.


My next big step forward is a plan to sell a duplex I own, and buying a property with fertile land in Northern California. I have discussed this with my partner, and although he's pretty sure I'm crazy, he seems to be on board. Can I actually do it? Will I just be an urban dumbass sitting in the middle of nowhere? I don't know, I hope not, but I know it's better than allowing myself to obsess about how it's all over.

So, that was it for me. If you've gotten this far, thanks for hanging in there. Finally, I just want to say that we're all in this together. With so much uncertainty, it's hard to say which direction we should move. But I honestly believe that a sense of community and solidarity will be vital in making it through.

[0mar]

Getting a gun makes you feel a whole lot less powerless

And study something important like chemistry, physics or biology.

[ThinkGeek]

My question was kind of answered...
Im sixteen right now. According to one of the above posters i will be 46 when the nearest possible collapse of civilization occurs. That makes me feel mildly better . I am kind of concerned about America's ignorance though, I just saw a Toyota commercial that said: "Eight Toyota models have 30 mpg or higher, so you can keep driving no matter how high the price of gas goes." or something like that. I don't really think we are really grasping the gravity of the situation.

But time for my two cents:
Aaron said: "Pick your fantasy and enjoy..."


Is it me or are some people here just a tad pessimisstic? To be completely honest you sound a little extreme. So what if prices go up? With the worse case scenario of grossly misstated oil reserves, it means that while prices will skyrocket, there will be a giant incentive for people to invest in alternative energy sources. We have the technology for alternative fuel sources now, their promotion and development can be accelerated with more money.(and can anyone explain America's crop yields. I've been told that the Govt pays farmers not to grow and a lot of surplus crops are bought by the government.)

-The technology exists for alternative fuels
-The money is (and will) be there for investments in Alternative Fuel
-A anti-nuke protesters can't compete with pebble-bed reactors
-Crop yields can be raised to compensate for crops that cannot be treated with oil-based pesticides and fertilizers
-Without Oil, way less greenhouse gasses
-Even in the worst case, the human race has gotten along quite well without Oil for about 15,000 years.
-Read "The Devil's Advocate" thread by Aaron:
http://www.peakoil.com/fortopic2274.html+advocate

When I finish High School in three years, I'll worry about PO then.
I have Wired magazine to sustain my hopes:
http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/13.0 ... topic_set=

I would not like to die anytime soon, but some factors are beyond my control.

We're all going to die anyway, so get over it.

Those are my two cents. The last part sounds kind of pessimistic, but it's true. Some people believed that civilization would come to a catastrophic end in 2000, others beleive in the rapture, others beleive in the idea that a n asteriod will hit earth and kill us all. Any one of your trillions of cells can mutate and cause cancer...the list is never-ending. Life is too precious to be spent worrying about this kind of thing.

George Orwell wrote:
"Insanity is just a minority of one"
"Sanity is not statistical."

Maybe you're all insane, maybe you're not. Time will tell. Just spend it well.