[wisconsin_cur]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mekrob', '
')
Ha, it's fine. I say the same thing about humans all the time when anybody gets stereotypical and blames one side for all the war or greed etc. We, as the human race, have always acted, as a group, very mean-spirited, aggressive, greedy, etc. Any periods of 'enlightenment' and peace is only temporary.

If you're talking about choosing between nations, I choose neither. If ideals, I choose B. If I have a third option, then I choose someone close to:



Ultimately, the above is my final answer as the coming PO crisis will bring both nations to their knees.

[smiley]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'H')a, it's fine. I say the same thing about humans all the time when anybody gets stereotypical and blames one side for all the war or greed etc. We, as the human race, have always acted, as a group, very mean-spirited, aggressive, greedy, etc. Any periods of 'enlightenment' and peace is only temporary.

[wisconsin_cur]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('smiley', '
')It makes a difference though. If you want to eradicate violence, it is just a matter of preventing a few violent people to gain positions where they can instigate violence. Unfortunately non of our ruling systems has been able to achieve that, although democracy has come close.

[Plantagenet]

Peace brings prosperity.

[mattduke]

Lieberman has a bill to strip suspected terrorists of their human rights.

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing- ... error-orgs

M.I.A., Born Free:

http://vimeo.com/11219730

[mos6507]

I don't think the way to respond to perceived human rights abuse is to issue anti-semitic diatribes.

[mattduke]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', 'I') don't think the way to respond to perceived human rights abuse is to issue anti-semitic diatribes.

[Cloud9]

Surrender liberty for security and you have neither. Why is it that such a truth has become trite to the body politic?

[Tanada]

80% of Americans do not trust their government, how many of them will be redefined as terrorists and stripped of due process as time goes forward?

Those who would trade Liberty for Security will have neither.

[jbrovont]

Suspect being the key word here. If the law can attach punitive measures to "suspicion," who needs trials?

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tanada', '8')0% of Americans do not trust their government, how many of them will be redefined as terrorists and stripped of due process as time goes forward?

Those who would trade Liberty for Security will have neither.

[Olaf]

On this point I must echo Tanada and Cloud9. I imagine just about anyone could be a 'suspect'.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he Connecticut senator and a cadre of Republican lawmakers believe that trying terror suspects in military courts would allow for investigators to gather more secretive intelligence from suspects without it being made public, so that terror groups aren't tipped off.

[Olaf]

...and who defines 'terrorist' organization?

That can work in any number of directions. In a very broad sense, imagine hypothetically...Greenpeace or perhaps the NRA.

I speculate that perhaps the government is really just long term preparing us for a process (or emergency) that will help maintain order; a process they don't want to share with us.

[Cloud9]

Anyone who has tried to vote the in party out has tried to over throw the government. So where does that leave us?

[Sixstrings]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'S')en. Joe Lieberman (I-Conn.) is planning to introduce a bill that would allow the government to take away citizenship from Americans who join foreign terrorist organizations.

[dinopello]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', 'B')ut notice how broad the language is here.. why the heck isn't Lieberman narrowing it to apply only to recently naturalized citizens? That's still a slippery slope, but would at least directly address the problem without stripping the entire nation of its Constitutional rights.

[jbrovont]

Seems to me that willfully trying to overthrow the government "of the people" by subverting the Constitution is treason. By his own proposed law, Lieberman should be stripped of his citizenship and expelled from the United States (without a trial mind you).

The only way these laws make sense, is if the lawmakers have an "us and them" mentality - "us" being the lawmakers the "laws" are being made to protect, and "them" being, well, the rest of "us."

See, if you think of yourself as an "American Citizen," then there'd be no reason to be afraid of all the "American Citizens" rising up and tossing you out on your can. Humans form social groups essentially for protection - if you fear a group, it's because you don't think you are part of it. If you are part of a group, empowering it gives you a sense of security. Only when a person feels threatened by a group (by definition that they are not part of) do they feel a need to undermine it.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dinopello', 'T')he whole idea is stupid. If a citizen commits treason, then try them for treason, don't say "well, we don't have enough evidence that they are treasonous, so lets strip them of their citizenship so we can hang them without trial".

[Sixstrings]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dinopello', 'T')he whole idea is stupid. If a citizen commits treason, then try them for treason, don't say "well, we don't have enough evidence that they are treasonous, so lets strip them of their citizenship so we can hang them without trial".