[SeaGypsy]

I don't think anyone is arguing the rockets were phantoms. Mesuge and I are arguing that there are gaping holes in the 'man on the moon' story. I don't think the Mars probes were faked, and they were much more difficult than unmanned moon missions.

[Mesuge]

dorlo> pls. stop this charade, it's beyond silly..

Nobody questioned the veracity of Saturn V launch or the 3rd party sightings of orbiting various stages of apollo crafts, this was addressed/explained numerous times and long ago as not proving anything in terms of the whole earth-2-moon and back claimed official mission scenario. As to other questions, we are not omnipresent gods, we don't know every detail or claim to have as most of the fanatical "100%" ers seem to act. Beyond any doubt there is enough inconsistencies within the official record itself to render the 69-72 humanoid landings or even human-piloted moon flyover as dubious proposition.

The tactics of setting traps via pushing people into speculations is evident, or as mos-like maneouvers to do setup, ignite, hate-talk infuse, then not asnwering factual debate, and finally poking fingers on these "crazies" supposedly overtaking and spoiling this forum. Let it rest, you don't have a solid case, the train has left the station long ago.

[Sixstrings]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', 'I') don't doubt that unmanned missions went to the moon and left some stuff there, perhaps even collected some rocks. .

[Mesuge]

While not endorsing your particular push for unmanned probes landing on the Moon speculative-theory, sorry you are wrong again, e.g. these were telly-joystick operated and in my book this still counts as "1960s technology": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunokhod_1

[Sixstrings]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Mesuge', 'W')hile not endorsing your particular push for unmanned probes landing on the Moon speculative-theory, sorry you are wrong again, e.g. these were telly-joystick operated and in my book this still counts as "1960s technology": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunokhod_1

[SeaGypsy]

The US had Hollywood, USSR didn't. Watch any Russian movie they are 20 plus years behind Hollywood at best, same with their fashion. But in terms of science the 2 countries were very close for a very long time.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', 'T')he US had Hollywood, USSR didn't.

[mos6507]

BTW, there are high altitude photos of the landing sites taken by the Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter on this debunking page.

Of course, once you build a conspiracy, adding to it by claiming things like these are photoshopped is easy to do.

Another good photo of Apollo 15 is here.

[dinopello]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', 'T')he US had Hollywood, USSR didn't.

[SeaGypsy]

I am not suggesting Hollywood made the fake moon footage, but that film making was and still is way advanced on anywhere else in the world. Very bright people do not need to spend very long in, or be an important part of any workplace to learn the techniques of a particular industry.

My industry, Venetian glass, was spread around the world by one man.
Lino Tagliapietra took traditional venetion techniques from Murano and taught them to people who took the whole craft into modern fine art. Decades later we had Chinese industrial spies coming into the studio taking lots of photos. With these photos and some fresh glass art graduates from the US and Australia the Chinese have quickly become mass producers of blown glass at a level just behind the best in the world.

[Mesuge]

Ludi> pls. talk to the point, we heard about your exceptional special-effects self-promo pedigree at least twice overhere, sadly that's actual zero contribution to the debate. What about refuting/commenting on the material presented/linked instead? For instance in Jarrah's videos there are clear signs of cuts and editing in supposedly raw live footage telecasts from both the in-flight and moon activities, deletion/censorship of comm. transcripts, midway trip apollo's deck/port windows and inerior filled with blueish low earth orbit light etc.

Six> I'm not giving russians/soviets or chinese for that matter free pass at all, but from the history they are usually more about cover-up, than silly show-pretend barnum stuff, but the bottom-line remains, they don't claim repeated direct visit of humans on the surface of another world..

mos> sorry you seem again to be late to the party, gist of the debate, the analysis of these supposedly "high res" landing sites images has been already done in detail by Jarrah and others. Offered landing site pics with objects sized few pixels of res solves/proves nothing, especially if these metal object reflecting as much as nearby natural terrain spots. At the same time when earth-spy (lower alt.) sat imagery is known to be capable easily read even distinct sub-features on similarly sized vehicles/objects for decades.

[dorlomin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', 'I') don't doubt that unmanned missions went to the moon and left some stuff there, perhaps even collected some rocks. .

[dorlomin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', 'T')he US had Hollywood, USSR didn't.

[mos6507]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Mesuge', '
')mos> sorry you seems again to be late to the party

[mos6507]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', '
')A more insidious version is the New York Times, the "Paper of record". Its claims for "objectivity" are merely an advertising-driven cynicism--the paper creates division and plays off the left and right constantly

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dorlomin', '
')Soviet SciFi films in the 60s and 70s were very very good, almost as good as the US.

But watching the best of them all 2001, and you can see the gap between one of the all time greatest Kubric, and reality.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', '
')That is how we will balkanize and tribalize ourselves down to the point of peering through a gun slot in the doomstead, paranoid that our neighbors are out to get us, which is the last thing we need in a post-peak world.

[mos6507]

But the same phenomenon that causes people to think the moon mission is faked causes people to disbelieve peak oil and global warming. So I choose not to just tolerate quackery but to challenge it, and challenge the thought processes which make us so vulnerable to it.