[mos6507]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', '
')So if you want to pidgeon hole me with the space cadets simply because I don't trust your government at all, that is your doing.

[SeaGypsy]

So there is no room for doubt in your head and you aren't even going to look at it.
Fine. I can't argue with frozen logic.

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_q ... ings+faked

Watch some of these and see if your mind is completly unaffected in it's commitment to Apollo.

And don't bother telling me youtube is not authoratative. It is merely the messenger.
Like 9/11 and JFK there are plenty of holes in the official story.

[Keith_McClary]

I was thinking of doing a poll to see if people are consistently sceptical.

For example,
A = AGW sceptic
B = 9/11 sceptic
C = Evolution sceptic

The poll would have 8 choices:

A, B and C
A,B but not C
A,C not B
B,C not A
A
B
C
none

If you add D there would be 16 choices.

What kinds of scepticism would you pick for A,B,C? Another popular one is scientific medicine and nutrition.

I am sceptical of cornucopianism, am I a sceptic?

[Sixstrings]

This thread is a lesson in post-modernism.. we're living in an age where everyone, including youtubers, is entitled to his own "opinion" on reality. There is no longer objective truth that can be arrived at through reason.

I would say that all those videos on youtube aren't interviewing professional, credentialed scientists who have published in respected peer-reviewed periodicals, and whose findings have withstood the examination of a majority of other qualified scientists.

I would say that, but then the conversation would just go post-modernist again and SeaGypsy would say he DOESN'T TRUST ANYONE. This is why the scientific method matters, this is why peer review matters. If you take the science out of science then all you have is reason-less dogma, conspiracy theories, fables, and folklore.

(by the way SeaGypsy, my disagreements with you aren't intended to offend, you're actually one of my favorite posters on this forum)

[Sixstrings]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Keith_McClary', 'I') was thinking of doing a poll to see if people are consistently sceptical.

For example,
A = AGW sceptic
B = 9/11 sceptic
C = Evolution sceptic

[shortonsense]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', '
')So if you want to pidgeon hole me with the space cadets simply because I don't trust your government at all, that is your doing.

[Arthur75]

About the 911 skeptics, there is a usual "posture" which is the following :

"Oh I don't want to discuss politics and conspiracies, me I'm pure and I'm just staying on the technical facts !"
(and then you have all these pseudo and often grotesques technical analysis, relying on your "common sense", and with deep background voice and music in the vid)

But the fact is that the technical analysis are there, and that technically, these planes full of fuel were indeed fully sufficient to bring those buildings down, WTC7 included.

[SeaGypsy]

Hogwash.

Anyway as specifified the progenator would prefer this not become another 9/11 thread, so let's try to stick to the basics.

I will make it very clear for the reader.

I don't TRUST anyone I don't know very well. So Sixstrings is correct in his assertion.

Anyone who tries to telll me anything which is going to fundamentally alter the way I think is going to face intense scrutiny and doubt is the natural fall back position.

The 3 specific incidence I have mentioned here all fit into that category.

I DON'T KNOW WHAT HAPPENED ON 9/11 OR THE MOON OR TO JFK. I DON'T KNOW I DON'T KNOW I DON'T KNOW.

Soes that make you feel better mos?

I do know that the official version of these 3 incidence all have Mack truck sized holes in them.

Those prepared to argue the opposite have either not looked at contrary evidence or are straight out sheep.

[dinopello]

What I don't understand about the people who don't believe humans have walked on the moon is that it would have been a million times more difficult and expensive to fake it and keep it secret then it was to just go to the freakin thing. Getting to the moon is not rocket science, its a fairly straightforward engineering problem. We are very good at that kind of thng.

[Bas]

I'm skeptikal about all tinfoilhattery, and though I'd love to know the truth and facts that spy agencies have around the world about 9/11, aliens, banker families and machiavellian individuals and groups that might operate in the shadows and around the world, I don't expect I ever will.

Everything I read about these kind of topics on the internet usually makes my BS-alarm go off. And no matter how much I'd like to know more about these things, usually my scientifically trained mind cannot but say (at the very least) this can't be verified so it's not worth much. Hence I've become discouraged reading about this BS.

Another topic alltogether though is the enormous amount of junkinformation modern western and especially Americans get thrown at them by all kinds of media. It has diminished the average citizen's capacity to be skeptical. Scary.

[Novus]

Forget about the buildings.

Why was the government (NORAD) running a live simulation of plane hijackings on the morning of 9/11? There was state of mass confusion on the morning of 9/11 in air traffic control rooms all across the country. When the first 911 calls came in that there were hijackings in progress air traffic control was told it was just a drill. This state of confusion continued even after the towers were hit. Unless the air traffic controllers were watching CNN in their control rooms they were still being told it was all a drill. Even when they did realize there were real hijackings taking place they did not know what flagged flights were real and which ones were part of NORAD's simulation. This led to the only option the flight controllers had when they ordered the unprecedented total Air Traffic stop with all flights to be grounded immediately.

It was this piece of information that turned me into a truther after 6 years of believing the official story myself. What kind of conspiracy theorist does this make me? The most dangerous kind. The rational kind that starts off as a skeptic but then finds the truth.

[Sixstrings]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Novus', 'F')orget about the buildings.

Why was the government (NORAD) running a live simulation of plane hijackings on the morning of 9/11? There was state of mass confusion on the morning of 9/11 in air traffic control rooms all across the country. When the first 911 calls came in that there were hijackings in progress air traffic control was told it was just a drill.

[Sixstrings]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', '(')BTW) Mos, you can F&*^% off with your byline/ signature. Grow up and act like an adult. I stongly disagree with your angle in this thread, so I am attempting to debate with you and other grown ups here. If you want to take one line I said out of context and hammer me with it... well there are other folks living in glass houses.

[Mesuge]

Sorry, to repeat myself on the topic here, but from some of the previous posts it seems necessary to go to the basics sort of 101. On the JFK, the common sense, the players and their motives/positions, the timeline, evidence and declassified record is gargantuan and it points into the same direction. At the minimum, if you for some reason don't want go further, it's certain there was a gov. coverup and this can be claimed with 99.9% probability, just replay that famous pres. Johnson - justice Warren telephone call/transcript, where they discuss the need for end result PRIOR to INVESTIGATION, not being rightwing/leftwing but lonenut type of conspiracy, because the hardliners push him into open confrontation with USSR. Which are the very same guys, CIA founders, chief of staff and others Kennedys managed to kick out after bay of pigs, when they learned the president is not suppose to be in charge of anything. And these are the same individuals who later established and ran the Warren panel, how silly and spitting in the face of public this ever could be.

Obviously, many relatively resonable people not familiar even with the basic facts, are ready to uphold that silly incoherent line of Chomsky, basically saying JFK was another establishment's spoiled rat, and who cares if he was silenced in some kind of elite circle power struggle, but most likely he was not - conclusion. However, according to same good Mr. Chomsky, the MLK plot seems to him as perfectly plausible case of gov. sponsored hit. Which has been proved in court in the late 1990s by the King family btw.

So, there you have it, you can follow "line of reasoning" by left-gatekeepers like this peculiar MIT-individual or read the volumnous declassified records, and accounts of early sceptics like several members of the Warren Comm., later Rockefeller, HSCA panel investigations and their formely secret executive session reports etc. And start to judge for yourself..

[Revi]

I realized that I don't really car whether the government is behind 9/11, or whatever.

I do care about the imminent depletion of oil because it has the potential to affect me.

I don't think there's any percentage in uncovering the mountain of lies this whole civilization is sitting on.

I do think there is something to be gained by prepping for what's coming, but even that may not work.

I used to think that people would do something if they knew about peak oil, but ten years later I am one of the only people I know who is doing anything.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dinopello', '
')
Ha, I wish. I'm actually good friends with several "rocket scientists". It's an expression I bring up often when they are around when they are trying to do something that they believe is really difficult (like getting their 5th grader to go to bed). We all find it hard to believe that people actually think it is more difficult to go to the moon than fake it. I don't know anyone IRL that thinks that way.

[mos6507]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '
')I've worked in motion picture special effects since 1986 and there's nothing in the moon landing footage that leads me to believe they were faked. I don't know of any visual effects people who think the moon landings might have been faked.

[dinopello]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '
')I've worked in motion picture special effects since 1986 and there's nothing in the moon landing footage that leads me to believe they were faked. I don't know of any visual effects people who think the moon landings might have been faked.

[Mesuge]

Dino & Mos> exactly, why bother studing your own history, it's completely useless, you can always tune to msm or related pseudo-science/history channel with the politically correct/approved narrative and the "democratic right" to salivate over the blond bimbo presenter is a free bonus.

Learn, study, come back and refute evidence, historical narrative, presented e.g. in books of like Peter Dale Scott, Russ Baker, or William Pepper's. Only then you will be taken seriously as a partner to discussion.

[Ludi]

I would love to see folks try to replicate the "faked" moon landings! But that probably won't happen because it would cost tens, possibly hundreds, of millions of dollars. But it would be fun to see if it could be done.

BTW I haven't watched all the moon hoax video about Stanley Kubrick and the Zeiss lens, but the beginning looks excellent.