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Do you help panhandlers / homeless?

What's on your mind?
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Re: Do you help panhandlers / homeless?

Postby Ludi » Sun 18 Apr 2010, 11:58:14

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Repent', ' ')Instead I see signs like 'Ninga's killed my family, need money to get judo lessons'.



I've never seen a sign like that! Could you take a pic and post it next time you see one?
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Re: Do you help panhandlers / homeless?

Postby Rod_Cloutier » Sun 18 Apr 2010, 12:08:36

If I knew how to post an embedded image to this website. (I haven't got a clue).
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Re: Do you help panhandlers / homeless?

Postby Ludi » Sun 18 Apr 2010, 12:12:05

If the image is posted to another site, just put bracket img bracket and bracket backslash img bracket around around the url of the image.
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Re: Do you help panhandlers / homeless?

Postby hardtootell-2 » Sun 18 Apr 2010, 12:21:00

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('hardtootell-2', '
')
Do you think it is useful or necessary to turn a point of view into a personal attack?



It's interesting.

Not being a realist, I don't restrict my interaction to those which are useful or necessary.


I have found this approach helpful as I try (poorly) to make my incoherent thoughts understood. Esp points 6,13 and 19

http://www.paulnoll.com/Books/Clear-Eng ... dvice.html

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Re: Do you help panhandlers / homeless?

Postby threadbear » Sun 18 Apr 2010, 12:28:19

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('hardtootell-2', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('hardtootell-2', ' ')I am not without compassion



Whatever you call "compassion" is not of much use. That's very interesting information to have about you. I certainly hope everyone who knows you takes note of it, in case you ever get injured, ill, or old and fall into the "failed experiment" category yourself. Then they can treat you according to your own philosophy.


Do you think it is useful or necessary to turn a point of view into a personal attack?


The challenge in the future, Hardtotell, is not whether we survive as a species or not. We WILL survive. But in what form? The failed experiments could turn out to be those who sacrifice their humanity on the alter of social Darwinism. Social Darwinism is limited in scope and cruel in it's application.

Had Hitler been successful, the planet would have been cleansed of autistics and autistic spectrum "disorders". Had that been the case, there wouldn't have been a computer revolution, the creation of a noosphere that enables us to transcend self, to a truly remarkable degree.

Schizophrenia would have been excised as well, and with it, the genes for artistic expression. The same would have applied to bipolar disorder.

We have to endure some of the more difficult expressions of mental illness, along with those who suffer from them, in our own best interest.

In order that we as a species maintain the highest possible levels of complexity, intricacy, and the potential for individuation it's necessary that those who are ill are cared for. Compassion, not only helps the afflicted, it helps preserve humanity in it's most elegant, most desirable forms. The greatest potential for individuation takes place in a petrie dish that allows for, expects and tolerates extremes.
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Re: Do you help panhandlers / homeless?

Postby Ludi » Sun 18 Apr 2010, 12:34:24

Thank you, threadbear. There is no way I could have said that, but I agree with it.

It's hard for me not to take these kind of things personally, being one of the "failed experiments" myself.
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Re: Do you help panhandlers / homeless?

Postby threadbear » Sun 18 Apr 2010, 15:46:29

Thanks Ludi, By fascist standards I epitomize failure. I'm eccentric almost to the point of madness, and without family or state intervention, physical illness would have killed me, by my late thirties. And....I'm even starting to look lousy in lederhosen!
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Re: Do you help panhandlers / homeless?

Postby JJ » Sun 18 Apr 2010, 15:47:50

wow, just got back from an adventure to Austin, Texas on a rice buying mission. There is at least one homeless guy (or gal) on every corner and sometimes several. Some very original signs also. (I'm part of the failed experiment also, Ludi). Didn't give out any money, but saw some funny signs. (Bad guys don't give homeless money, etc.)
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Re: Do you help panhandlers / homeless?

Postby Ludi » Sun 18 Apr 2010, 16:23:06

Austin was always "home" to so many homeless people. Back in my college days they were called "Drag Worms." I was quite conservative then, so didn't give any handouts. I thought they should pull themselves up by their own bootstraps. The fates sure slapped me down later in life!
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Re: Do you help panhandlers / homeless?

Postby hardtootell-2 » Sun 18 Apr 2010, 16:40:20

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('hardtootell-2', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('hardtootell-2', ' ')I am not without compassion



Whatever you call "compassion" is not of much use. That's very interesting information to have about you. I certainly hope everyone who knows you takes note of it, in case you ever get injured, ill, or old and fall into the "failed experiment" category yourself. Then they can treat you according to your own philosophy.


Do you think it is useful or necessary to turn a point of view into a personal attack?


The challenge in the future, Hardtotell, is not whether we survive as a species or not. We WILL survive. But in what form? The failed experiments could turn out to be those who sacrifice their humanity on the alter of social Darwinism. Social Darwinism is limited in scope and cruel in it's application.

Had Hitler been successful, the planet would have been cleansed of autistics and autistic spectrum "disorders". Had that been the case, there wouldn't have been a computer revolution, the creation of a noosphere that enables us to transcend self, to a truly remarkable degree.

.


What a relief to be finally "outed" as one of the "boys from Brazil"! Let me regale you all with some of my favorite quotes:

Ebenezer: Are there no prisons?
First Collector: Plenty of prisons.
Ebenezer: And the union workhouses - are they still in operation?
First Collector: They are. I wish I could say they were not.
Ebenezer: Oh, from what you said at first I was afraid that something had happened to stop them in their useful course. I'm very glad to hear it.

I know it is seasonal, but to me Scrooge is a man for all seasons. :)
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Re: Do you help panhandlers / homeless?

Postby Ludi » Sun 18 Apr 2010, 16:46:03

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('hardtootell-2', '
')I know it is seasonal, but to me Scrooge is a man for all seasons. :)



Who would have guessed?
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Re: Do you help panhandlers / homeless?

Postby deMolay » Tue 20 Apr 2010, 09:58:04

There are no apparent homeless in the small town near where I live. But the wife and I have been taking food and some money every 2 weeks to a young Native family with 5 kids. The father is in the last stages of cancer and is unable to work. Every year we always seem to find someone who needs food or help. We have always done this. Either by donating food, clothing or money to families we know need help, or by donating food to community dinners for those in need. Sometimes cooking and serving the food when possible. Tho not cooking lately since my wife has been ill. If someone asks me for money on the street, and says they are hungry I will take them to the nearest restaurant and buy them whatever they want on the menu. I will not give money to drug addicts or drunks for this reason. Many years ago when I was hitch hiking and bumming around. I stayed in a campground one night in the Mountains. Two young Native men were panhandling in the campground for money, they were fairly drunk. They asked me for money, and as I was cooking my meal for the day I offered them food. They refused the food and kept panhandling. The next morning they were found dead by the outdoor showers in the campground. They collected enough money to buy more booze and had drank themselves too death. I never forgot that experience, and was glad I had not given them money.
"We Are All Travellers, From The Sweet Grass To The Packing House, From Birth To Death, We Wander Between The Two Eternities". An Old Cowboy.
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Re: Do you help panhandlers / homeless?

Postby WildRose » Tue 20 Apr 2010, 12:07:11

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('deMolay', ' ')Every year we always seem to find someone who needs food or help. We have always done this. Either by donating food, clothing or money to families we know need help, or by donating food to community dinners for those in need.


What goes around, comes around, deMolay. You and your wife have big hearts.

We've had the opportunity of helping several kids and youth in our home over the years when they were going through a rough spot. Actually, I miss those days. Now, I buy extra items for the Food Bank when I go grocery shopping and just help out wherever I can.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('deMolay', 'T')he next morning they were found dead by the outdoor showers in the campground. They collected enough money to buy more booze and had drank themselves too death. I never forgot that experience, and was glad I had not given them money.


I feel the same way. It wouldn't sit well with me if money I donated caused a person harm.
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Re: Do you help panhandlers / homeless?

Postby Ludi » Tue 20 Apr 2010, 12:44:12

There's no homeless shelter in my county.
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Re: Do you help panhandlers / homeless?

Postby threadbear » Tue 20 Apr 2010, 15:43:42

I'm with you deMolay. And good for you. What a big heart you have. Also, if you feel comfortable talking about your wife, on this thread--how is she?

I wouldn't give an alcoholic or anyone addicted to something that can make them violent, like meth, money either.

But would I give money to a woman hooked on heroin, trying to dull the emotional pain of having to sleep with men for a living?...yes.
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Re: Do you help panhandlers / homeless?

Postby threadbear » Tue 20 Apr 2010, 15:48:31

Oh, and one more caveat. I would give someone like Maddog, a poor Russian woman scraping buy, selling flowers at a kiosk in St. Petersburg, money, if she needed it. I'd also pay for pituitary growth hormone for her. She's a midget and confined to a wheelchair. Poor thing. After glasnost many Russians really suffered, particularly elderly widowed pensioners. But that's not quite the same as giving to someone who is panhandling. Maddog might not even accept. She has her pride.
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Re: Do you help panhandlers / homeless?

Postby Maddog78 » Tue 20 Apr 2010, 15:56:38

Just give what you can, every little bit helps.

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Re: Do you help panhandlers / homeless?

Postby MarkJ » Wed 21 Apr 2010, 06:22:12

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'T')here's no homeless shelter in my county.


We have many services available to prevent or reduce homelessness.

Just a few places to seek help locally.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he following agencies offer a range of services including housing assistance, food and clothing, job searches and training, substance abuse recovery, transportation and case management.

• Domestic Violence and Rape Crisis Services of Saratoga County, 480 Broadway, LL20, Saratoga Springs, NY 12866. Executive Director Maggie Fronk. Phone: 583-0280. 24-hour hotlines: Domestic violence: 584-8188; Rape crisis: 587-2336

• Julie O’Toole, Saratoga Springs City School District homeless liaison. Phone: 693-1439

• Soul Saving Station Church, 62 Henry St.Saratoga Springs, NY 12866. Phone: 584-3122

• Saratoga County Housing Alliance, 474 Broadway, Saratoga Springs, NY 12866. Coordinator Charmi O’Connor, Co-chairs Cindy Phillips and Nancy Breen Lamb. Phone: 587-3550, ext. 2575

• Saratoga County Economic Opportunity Council Soup Kitchen at the Presbyterian New England Congregational UCC Church, 24 Circular St., Saratoga Springs, NY 12866. Free lunch served 11:45 a.m. to 1 p.m. Mondays through Saturdays. Phone: 581-8233

• Saratoga County Department of Social Services, 152 West High St., Ballston Spa, NY 12020 Phone: 884-4140

• Saratoga County Sheriff’s Department. Phone: 885-6761

For those in need of the Department of Social Services’ temporary housing services after business hours, sheriffs will contact the on-call DSS employee, who will then contact the individual to help in a matter of minutes.

• Catholic Charities of Saratoga, Warren and Washington Counties (a ministry of the Catholic Diocese of Albany), 142 Regent St.Saratoga Springs, NY 12866. Phone: 587-5000

Shelters of Saratoga 14 Walworth Street Saratoga Springs, NY 12866 Phone Number: (518)581-1097 Website: http://www.sheltersofsaratoga.com


Shelters Of Saratoga also has a mobile outreach program since many homeless avoid the shelters due to zero-tolerance drug and alcohol policy.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he project is targeted at individuals both in the city and throughout the county who are known to be chronically unsheltered.

SOS’s latest “point in time” count was completed Jan. 27 to determine the number of homeless individuals in the city at one particular time. Of the 42 families — which included 94 household members — and 137 unaccompanied individuals the shelter counted, 27 individuals were considered chronically homeless.

Furthermore, 78 reported having mental illness, 67 reported substance abuse problems, 29 were veterans, 18 were living with HIV/AIDS, 21 were victims of domestic violence and three were unaccompanied youth.

SOS provided 2,918 beds of service between January and June this year. It helps more than 500 people a year with housing, both at the 14 Walworth St. shelter and by providing apartments for low-income families. Some people who are in need of help steer clear of the shelter because of a variety of mental health, economic or substance abuse problems, Wyczawski said. Another potential detractor is that SOS has a zero-tolerance policy for drugs and alcohol.

“For whatever reason, these people are not choosing to approach us directly, and (the mobile outreach project) is an opportunity for us to build relationships with those individuals who are totally isolated,” she said. “We will establish trust and direct them toward whatever they need.”



Many at-risk, or homeless people avoid the transitional community since residents must work and pay rent.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')n addition to the traditional services the shelter provides, SOS offers low-income housing, a mobile outreach unit and, their newest service, transitional living. Those living in the transitional living community at 20 Walworth St. must be employed and pay rent.


Guardian House will be New York State's first transitional home for homeless women veterans.


$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he Guardian House, sponsored and supervised by the Saratoga County Rural Preservation Company, will be located in Saratoga County and will be open to all women veterans from anywhere in the state who are in need of temporary housing, basic living necessities, advocacy for their benefits due, assistance with their physical and psychological challenges through case management and help in obtaining training and employment, as well as to secure permanent housing. Empire State College has signed on as the educational partner for the Guardian House.


In many regions, they don't have homeless shelters, but DSS will place homeless residents in emergency shelters, motels or they'll qualify at-risk residents for public/private subsidized housing, food-stamps, WIC, foodbank supplements, HEAP, Emergency HEAP, daycare, job assistance, transportation assistance, Medicaid, winterization, weatherization, home improvements, furnace or boiler maintenance, repair, replacement, lifeline wireless service etc.
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Re: Do you help panhandlers / homeless?

Postby buddylee » Wed 21 Apr 2010, 12:28:55

A friend of mine posted on his Facebook that he bought a homeless guy a bag of dog food for said guy's dog. That made my day.
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Re: Do you help panhandlers / homeless?

Postby Sixstrings » Wed 21 Apr 2010, 15:05:07

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MarkJ', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'T')here's no homeless shelter in my county.


We have many services available to prevent or reduce homelessness.


Well, that list may be true for Saratoga New York, but in my part of Florida there is just the Salvation Army and one church group that does meals for the homeless. The homeless can only stay three nights out of a week.

The counties south of me are really bad, one has nothing at all, the best they can do is a greyhound bus ticket to another county, where that shelter isn't even open every day.

Thing is Mark, even where you live it may look like there's all kinds of help ON PAPER. But I know from just working with the working poor (I used to handle backdue water bills), once you start digging into details the available help out there is a lot thinner than you might think.

I would say at the minimum, government should be required to provide a secure place for everyone to sleep. If there aren't enough physical shelters, then they should organize tent cities. They don't want to do that, of course, since you can't pretend there isn't a problem if you have to look at a hobo-ville in every day. It' more palatable for society to keep the homeless out of sight, under the bridges and in the back alleys.
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