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47% Of Americans Pay No Federal Income Tax

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47% Of Americans Pay No Federal Income Tax

Unread postby mattduke » Sun 11 Apr 2010, 16:45:54

It's a start, but the goal is 100% paying no income tax. I'm not sure by the way if this poll incorrectly considers government employees as "taxpayers".

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Nearly-ha ... l?x=0&.v=1
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Re: 47% Of Americans Pay No Federal Income Tax

Unread postby Ludi » Sun 11 Apr 2010, 17:08:00

Some people feel this places an unfair burden on the rich.
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Re: 47% Of Americans Pay No Federal Income Tax

Unread postby Loki » Sun 11 Apr 2010, 18:10:33

Looks like 47% (or thereabouts) of megacorporations also pay no federal income tax. And a lot of those that do pay at a lower rate than your average middle classer.
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Re: 47% Of Americans Pay No Federal Income Tax

Unread postby Tyler_JC » Sun 11 Apr 2010, 18:13:17

It's not the unfair burden on the rich. It's the complete lack of burden on the non-payers.

They have no incentive to care about the size of government. Every expansion of government means more free benefits. Anyone who dares to bring them back into the taxpaying pool will be voted out of office.

Everyone should pay at least something into the Federal Treasury so they have a stake in how effectively their money is spent.

Maybe a flat 5% national sales tax would be appropriate (especially considering our massive deficits).

My concern is that the non-payers and close to non-payers will soon become an electoral majority. Politicians will pander to them by providing ever more "free" services while piling a dangerously high tax load on the employer/investor/entrepreneur/professional class. These people will see that the system is rigged and stop complying with the tax code. Then we become Greece.
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Re: 47% Of Americans Pay No Federal Income Tax

Unread postby Tyler_JC » Sun 11 Apr 2010, 18:21:05

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Loki', 'L')ooks like 47% (or thereabouts) of megacorporations also pay no federal income tax. And a lot of those that do pay at a lower rate than your average middle classer.


Corporate taxes are a scam. They nearly always just shift the cost to consumers or spend millions of dollars on accountants to eliminate the taxes entirely.

Image

The US has some of the highest corporate tax rates in the world but corporate taxes as a share of GDP is one of the lowest. Clearly something isn't working.

We should abolish the corporate income tax and treat dividends like normal income. That way corporate cash can't escape into Cayman Island tax havens.

More importantly, we need to treat capital gains like normal income but with a deduction for the cost of inflation.
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Re: 47% Of Americans Pay No Federal Income Tax

Unread postby Ludi » Sun 11 Apr 2010, 19:35:02

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tyler_JC', '
')Everyone should pay at least something into the Federal Treasury so they have a stake in how effectively their money is spent.



Even if they have no income?
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Re: 47% Of Americans Pay No Federal Income Tax

Unread postby Ludi » Sun 11 Apr 2010, 19:39:58

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tyler_JC', '
')My concern is that the non-payers and close to non-payers will soon become an electoral majority. Politicians will pander to them by providing ever more "free" services .



I only paid self-employment tax this year. What free stuff am I getting and where is the evidence I want free stuff?

I guess you want to punish me for reducing my need to earn. Gee whiz. I can't even win by trying to get out of the game around here.

Tax the poor!
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Re: 47% Of Americans Pay No Federal Income Tax

Unread postby bshirt » Sun 11 Apr 2010, 19:49:39

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mattduke', 'I')t's a start, but the goal is 100% paying no income tax. I'm not sure by the way if this poll incorrectly considers government employees as "taxpayers".

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Nearly-ha ... l?x=0&.v=1


I agree it's a good start and indeed 100% is the goal.

Good point about govn employees. If anyone should be taxed....
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Re: 47% Of Americans Pay No Federal Income Tax

Unread postby Plantagenet » Sun 11 Apr 2010, 20:03:22

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tyler_JC', '
')
Image


Add the new personal and corporate taxes needed to fund Obamacare, and the already high US tax burden will going be even higher.

That should effectively stop any chance of ever getting back to the 4-5% unemployment rates the US had just a few years ago. :roll:
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Re: 47% Of Americans Pay No Federal Income Tax

Unread postby Ludi » Sun 11 Apr 2010, 20:09:40

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '
')Add the new personal and corporate taxes needed to fund Obamacare, and the already high US tax burden will going be even higher.



What "high tax burden"? Taxes are quite low compared to historical levels.

Oh, and just in case you didn't see it the first time: Income distribution in the US: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=woIkIph5xcU
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Re: 47% Of Americans Pay No Federal Income Tax

Unread postby SteinarN » Mon 12 Apr 2010, 01:24:28

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tyler_JC', '
')
Image

The US has some of the highest corporate tax rates in the world but corporate taxes as a share of GDP is one of the lowest. Clearly something isn't working.

We should abolish the corporate income tax and treat dividends like normal income. That way corporate cash can't escape into Cayman Island tax havens.

More importantly, we need to treat capital gains like normal income but with a deduction for the cost of inflation.


Interesting chart. Is the share dividends subtracted from the profit before the corporate tax is calculated in the US?

In Norway it is the profit after tax that can be paid out as dividende.
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Re: 47% Of Americans Pay No Federal Income Tax

Unread postby Tyler_JC » Mon 12 Apr 2010, 02:08:23

I'm not sure how Norway's figure was calculated. You'd have to ask the Wall Street Journal.

When I looked at the chart I just dismissed Norway as an outlier impacted by its massive national oil company.
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Re: 47% Of Americans Pay No Federal Income Tax

Unread postby MarkJ » Mon 12 Apr 2010, 07:52:12

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')n recent years, credits for low- and middle-income families have grown so much that a family of four making as much as $50,000 will owe no federal income tax for 2009, as long as there are two children younger than 17, according to a separate analysis by the consulting firm Deloitte Tax.

The bottom 40 percent, on average, make a profit from the federal income tax, meaning they get more money in tax credits than they would otherwise owe in taxes. For those people, the government sends them a payment.


In addition, many of these households with no skin in the game qualify for numerous additional government, state and local benefits and/or have unreported cash/barter income.

Many renters with no skin in the game also pay zero or little property taxes, so there's less money to fund Medicaid, schools, libraries, police/fire departments, roads, parks, maintenance etc.

This places an incredible property tax burden on many low income property owners that can least afford tax hikes, plus it limits sales, new construction, renovation, expansion etc.
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Re: 47% Of Americans Pay No Federal Income Tax

Unread postby Novus » Mon 12 Apr 2010, 14:10:33

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '
')Add the new personal and corporate taxes needed to fund Obamacare, and the already high US tax burden will going be even higher.



What "high tax burden"? Taxes are quite low compared to historical levels.

Oh, and just in case you didn't see it the first time: Income distribution in the US: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=woIkIph5xcU


Is what that video shows is that we need an un-earned income tax on the massive wall st wealth. Scrap the current income tax on labor. It is obsolete. So there is a pile of bills 1 inch high and another 30 miles high. The US .gov taxes the 1 inch stack and ignores the 30 mile high one. We the people need to stop electing paid shills and idiots to represent us.
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Re: 47% Of Americans Pay No Federal Income Tax

Unread postby Ludi » Mon 12 Apr 2010, 18:12:41

But we must protect the "investor class"!
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Re: 47% Of Americans Pay No Federal Income Tax

Unread postby mattduke » Mon 12 Apr 2010, 18:16:45

Taxes are my number one expense. They are the primary difficulty I have in providing for my family.
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Re: 47% Of Americans Pay No Federal Income Tax

Unread postby Ludi » Mon 12 Apr 2010, 18:20:24

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mattduke', 'T')axes are my number one expense. They are the primary difficulty I have in providing for my family.


What taxes are you referring to? Income taxes, property taxes? Other?

I make very little money and pay very little in taxes. What's your tax rate? Looks like you may be in need of some financial advice if you are paying so much in taxes. Or maybe you need to move to a different state with no income tax, or something.
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Re: 47% Of Americans Pay No Federal Income Tax

Unread postby Sixstrings » Mon 12 Apr 2010, 18:22:01

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tyler_JC', 'I')t's not the unfair burden on the rich. It's the complete lack of burden on the non-payers.

They have no incentive to care about the size of government. Every expansion of government means more free benefits. Anyone who dares to bring them back into the taxpaying pool will be voted out of office.


Heh, the big laugh about this is that the only reason the upper half are paying all the taxes is because they have all the money! Dylan Raitgan mentioned the other day that for a period of four years, just Manhattan executives alone got like 140 BILLION in bonuses. That's just bonuses (not including salary and expense accounts), and just executives, and just on the island of Manhattan. That kind of money dwarfs the entire national budget of many countries.

The bottom line is Tyler, you can't get blood out of turnip. Your position is akin to feudal lords complaining about being overburdend compared to those rich, tax-evading serfs. :roll:
Last edited by Sixstrings on Mon 12 Apr 2010, 18:23:26, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 47% Of Americans Pay No Federal Income Tax

Unread postby bshirt » Mon 12 Apr 2010, 18:23:21

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mattduke', 'T')axes are my number one expense. They are the primary difficulty I have in providing for my family.


What taxes are you referring to? Income taxes, property taxes? Other?

I make very little money and pay very little in taxes. What's your tax rate? Looks like you may be in need of some financial advice if you are paying so much in taxes. Or maybe you need to move to a different state with no income tax, or something.


South Dakota I'm proud to say has no income tax! Extremely affordable and welcomes PO posters.
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Re: 47% Of Americans Pay No Federal Income Tax

Unread postby Ludi » Mon 12 Apr 2010, 18:24:44

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', ' ') Your position is akin to feudal lords complaining about being overburdend compared to those rich, tax-cheating serfs. :roll:



Taxing the poor is a time-honored tradition of collapsing empires.

Sign of the times.
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