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Movie: "Avatar" from James Cameron

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Re: "Avatar" as "anti-Western" project

Unread postby rangerone314 » Wed 27 Jan 2010, 13:07:44

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Lighthouse', 'I')nteresting what people see in that movie.

I found it an eye-candy without any deep meaning at all.

The plot was rather boring and left to many things unexplained.

How was the Avatar controlled by the humans? By radio control? How were the control inputs received, etc.

I did wonder the same thing. Then I guess with a 2 hour 40 minute movie they didn't want to add yet more minutes of explanation that a lot of people wouldn't understand.

I'd suggest an implant of somekind, and quite possibly that might factor into the next movie as a plot point if the humans come back. (He may be transfered into the avatar body permanently but wouldn't the implants still be there, and be subject to external input?)
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Re: "Avatar" as "anti-Western" project

Unread postby andersboulanger » Thu 28 Jan 2010, 16:26:24

It always interesting watching different groups or organizations react to contemporary works of art. The pope condemns avatar for promoting "worshiping nature", he also didn't like Da vinci Code. Salmon Rushdie's book gets banned and the Ayatallah puts a hit out on him. I think art is there for us to see our own reflection and learn from it. The rest is all commentary.
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Re: "Avatar" as "anti-Western" project

Unread postby Dreamtwister » Sat 30 Jan 2010, 10:47:34

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Lighthouse', 'H')ow was the Avatar controlled by the humans? By radio control? How were the control inputs received, etc.


Well you see, there are these microscopic organisms called "metachlorines"...

Sorry, I couldn't resist. Just trying to point out that sometimes, explainations are actually bad for the suspension of disbelief. It's a McGuffin, like the suitcase in Pulp Fiction. It doesn't matter what's in the case. It's enough for the audience to know Marcellus Wallace wanted it.

If they had explained how the avatar was controlled, it would have burdened the viewer with a bunch of information that was totally unnecessary for the advancement of the plot, like the explaination of metachlorines in Star Wars ep. 1. And we all remember what a turd that little bit of exposition was...
The whole of human history is a refutation by experiment of the concept of "moral world order". - Friedrich Nietzsche
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Re: James Cameron's "Avatar," Peak oil subtext?

Unread postby Hawkcreek » Sun 31 Jan 2010, 23:15:51

Ok, I'm an old guy and I thought the movie was great. I have been a science fiction reader since I was 13, and this is the first science fiction movie I have ever seen that engaged me as much as a good, hardcore science fiction novel. Yeah, I saw it twice. First time in over 40 years I have paid to see a movie twice. I won't mention what the last one was.
The thing I have always liked about SF is that it tries to make you understand the "what if" scenario that the author is asking questions about.
What if we could download our minds into a new body when the old one starts falling apart - how would it change our attitudes?
What if we built a new society in a low gravity environment - what would be different?
Some people look at those "what ifs" and learn about their own society, and think about why we do things that we do.
Others feel uneasy looking at those alternative possibilities because they don't like to think the the absolutes in our society could, or ever should change.
But if it cost a half a billion dollars, I consider it better spent than a lot of things I know of - like trillion dollar bailouts to the rich.
I know I felt like it was good value for the money I spent.
"It don't make no sense that common sense don't make no sense no more"
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Re: "Avatar" as "anti-Western" project

Unread postby rangerone314 » Mon 01 Feb 2010, 09:03:52

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Dreamtwister', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Lighthouse', 'H')ow was the Avatar controlled by the humans? By radio control? How were the control inputs received, etc.


Well you see, there are these microscopic organisms called "metachlorines"...

Sorry, I couldn't resist. Just trying to point out that sometimes, explainations are actually bad for the suspension of disbelief. It's a McGuffin, like the suitcase in Pulp Fiction. It doesn't matter what's in the case. It's enough for the audience to know Marcellus Wallace wanted it.

If they had explained how the avatar was controlled, it would have burdened the viewer with a bunch of information that was totally unnecessary for the advancement of the plot, like the explaination of metachlorines in Star Wars ep. 1. And we all remember what a turd that little bit of exposition was...

And that was annoying because supposedly Luke inherits his force powers from his Dad, and yet mitochondria are inherited from the mother, unless they are implying humans in the Star Wars universe are different.

(Mitochlorians were supposed to refer to mitochondria and chloroplasts, which are the energy-producing organelles in cells)
An ideology is by definition not a search for TRUTH-but a search for PROOF that its point of view is right

Equals barter and negotiate-people with power just take

You cant defend freedom by eliminating it-unknown

Our elected reps should wear sponsor patches on their suits so we know who they represent-like Nascar-Roy
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Re: "Avatar" as "anti-Western" project

Unread postby zoidberg » Tue 09 Feb 2010, 11:32:58

Uh guys its a complete rip off of Pocahontas. They literally just changed the names. It has NO deeper meaning because it wasnt written for this period. We can just draw analogies to anything we want.

Likewise nothing has to make sense either because its a movie based entirely on visuals.

All in all I liked it. I tried 3d but those things give me a headache. And it was 3 hours gawd I was sick of sitting in the theater at that point. I'll enjoy the BluRay that comes out later on my own entertainment center.
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Re: "Avatar" as "anti-Western" project

Unread postby mos6507 » Tue 09 Feb 2010, 13:06:01

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('zoidberg', '
')It has NO deeper meaning because it wasnt written for this period.


I guess nobody should get anything out of Shakespeare then. it wasn't written for this period. I know Avatar ain't got nothing on Shakespeare, but the above line of argumentation is intellectually bankrupt.
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Re: "Avatar" as "anti-Western" project

Unread postby Roy » Tue 09 Feb 2010, 13:42:46

Having just seen it on Saturday I'll add my 2 cents.

I don't think the movie was 'anti western' per se, but it did portray resource grabbing by a more technologically advanced society in a poor light.

Even though my ancestors and I have benefited from a similar strategy I still think it is wrong. After all, it wasn't my choice to do what was done. I have done everything I can do in my life to oppose the current campaigns. I voted, I protested, I wrote letters to editors, and have talked to everyone I know about it. None of it had any effect.

The visuals were great and I enjoyed the movie for what it is, a science fiction movie with great special effects.

To say the movie is anti western is a stretch.. It's like watching a movie about a rapist, then taking offense to the idea that the movie portrayed the rapist in a bad light.

If I'm not a rapist, I don't make any value judgments other than to agree with the premise of the movie.

If I go on a rant about how the movie is anti-rapist, then maybe I, in so many words, admit I'm a rapist and I do not wish to be portrayed in a bad light -- ie in a truthful fashion.

I see the war supporters, left and right -- they are many, in this country as the group who is offended by this movie.

They don't want the masses (possibly even themselves) to understand the true nature of current US military actions around the world and they themselves refuse to admit the truth of the matter as they find it rather unpleasant.

Bravo Mr. Cameron!

Enjoyable movie and so what if it hurts some peoples' feelings? If they admit it hurts then they should be questioning WHY IT HURTS. NO?

Instead they criticize Cameron and his film as being anti-western. That is a common debate tactic displayed in the US MSM every day on every channel. If you don't like the message, attack and discredit the messenger.
A nations military should only be used in a nations self defense, not to entertain liberal cravings for shaping poor nations into images of themselves by force. -- Eastbay

Shooting the messenger is typical when you are incapable of arguing against them. -- Airline Pilot
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Re: "Avatar" as "anti-Western" project

Unread postby zoidberg » Tue 09 Feb 2010, 17:33:42

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('zoidberg', '
')It has NO deeper meaning because it wasnt written for this period.


I guess nobody should get anything out of Shakespeare then. it wasn't written for this period. I know Avatar ain't got nothing on Shakespeare, but the above line of argumentation is intellectually bankrupt.


Well now I dont mean dont try to draw any analogies you like. If it helps you get a better understanding of the world around you then more power to you. All I'm saying is the the ideas in the movie, like almost all ideas everywhere is a copy. Its meaning is dependent upon the context (ie the current state of events and the viewer) There is certainly substance to the idea that extracting resources with no thought of the ecological systems around them is destructive. But that idea is incidental - a stage for the spectacle to take place on. Avatar is not an anti-western so much as a pro-money by amazing the masses project. That is the motivating idea.

For Shakespeare I would contend a modern plagiarism would have as much meaning to us as the original.
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Re: "Avatar" as "anti-Western" project

Unread postby Ludi » Tue 09 Feb 2010, 20:58:25

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('zoidberg', ' ')Avatar is not an anti-western so much as a pro-money by amazing the masses project. That is the motivating idea.



That is the motivating idea behind most of the entertainment industry, aka "show-biz." It is definitely "show-biz", not "show-art", or "show-ideas". If any art or ideas sneak by, that's incidental. Knowing how the biz works, it's a miracle anything of quality ever gets made.

I still haven't managed to get out to see Avatar. But I don't go to the movies very often! :oops:
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Re: "Avatar" as "anti-Western" project

Unread postby umbrarchist » Tue 16 Feb 2010, 14:08:47

It is curious that so much of Avatar is the same, if not derived from, a 1957 novel by Poul Anderson.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'C')ameron may have borrowed some of the key aspects of his tale from author Poul Anderson.

Reader Goldfarb pointed us to Call Me Joe, a novella written in 1957 by Golden Age science fiction writer Poul Anderson. Many fans of Anderson suspect that the story was an important influence on Avatar, and some are calling for Anderson to be credited on the film. And it's easy to see why.

http://io9.com/5390226/did-james-camero ... ns-novella

In 1957 we didn't have the Keeling Curve. Nobody was talking about Peak Oil. But the French had gotten their asses kicked at Dien Bien Phu but Amiercans had not yet gone into Nam to have helicopters over a jungle like in Avatar. The US is responsible for the deaths of 3,000,000 Vietnamese so American economist can ignore the depreciation of crappy automobiles purchased by consumers. Whoever heard of Net Domestic Product?

Some people say that Avatar portrays technology as EVIL but it really just shows that technology gives people POWER. The people then have to choose what to do with the technology and EVIL is one of the options.

So Avatar can be seen as an allegory of the last 500 years of Western, or possibly Roman, history. The word Czar comes from Caesar just like Kaiser so the Russians are really Westerners regardless of what the even more Westerners say.

But REAL science fiction form the 50s and 60s was only read by a small minority of people. This watered down sci-fi that has become popular in movies and on television since Star Wars doesn't usually contain deep messages and the audience isn't trying to read any.

Get the book Killer Thing by Kate Wilhelm.

http://www.fantasticfiction.co.uk/w/kat ... -thing.htm

Or try some Project Gutenberg.

http://www.gutenberg.org/files/25567/25 ... 5567-h.htm

The Economic Wargame is a continuation of the Military Wargame by other means.

http://www.toxicdrums.com/economic-warg ... imgar.html
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Re: "Avatar" as "anti-Western" project

Unread postby zoidberg » Tue 16 Feb 2010, 19:09:22

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('zoidberg', ' ')Avatar is not an anti-western so much as a pro-money by amazing the masses project. That is the motivating idea.



That is the motivating idea behind most of the entertainment industry, aka "show-biz." It is definitely "show-biz", not "show-art", or "show-ideas". If any art or ideas sneak by, that's incidental. Knowing how the biz works, it's a miracle anything of quality ever gets made.

I still haven't managed to get out to see Avatar. But I don't go to the movies very often! :oops:



Its fun to watch. I'll watch it one more time in the comfy confines of my private entertainment area, but only for the spectacle. The plot is truly incidental.
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Re: Movie: "Avatar" from James Cameron

Unread postby mos6507 » Sun 11 Apr 2010, 11:12:49

The plot is truly incidental, eh? Truth is stranger than fiction.
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