by mcgowanjm » Thu 01 Apr 2010, 22:28:22
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('shortonsense', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mcgowanjm', 'W')hy PO credibility in the first place?
You might enjoy, and perhaps should be, lumped in with the crazies, but I do not enjoy it, and certainly don't belong lumped in with them.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')
So we're drilling the ENTIRE
East Coast and Florida up to New Jersey.
Why.
W's Third Term from Mr Hope'n Change. BWAHAHAHAHA
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mcgowanjm', '
')Are we looking to recruit? For what?
It would be nice to mouth the words "peak oil" in polite company and not get giggled at.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')
It would be nice to have polite company understand
Quantum Physics, Parabolic Curves, and why they always
crash in Non Linear fashion, but they can't even understand
how not paying off their cards and not getting advanced loans
on a paycheck are guaranteed losers.
by Loki » Thu 01 Apr 2010, 23:35:57
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mcgowanjm', '
') * People do not like to be persuaded by fact or logical argument
* People like their comforts: cars, HVAC, etc.
* People are seduced by TV, consumerism
* Manual labor and farming are low-status activities
* People lack the skills to lead a non-mechanized existence
* It is almost impossible to convince people to do what will be necessary - until it becomes necessary
* It will be almost impossible to do what is necessary without a significant amount of preparation
* Those who take the trouble to prepare will be a tiny minority.
Dmitri Orlov wrote this. Attribution is always nice.
A garden will make your rations go further.
-
Loki
- Expert
-
- Posts: 3509
- Joined: Sat 08 Apr 2006, 03:00:00
- Location: Oregon
-
by Loki » Fri 02 Apr 2010, 00:11:42
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mcgowanjm', '
')You do realize that millions died during the Last Depression, eh?
Do you have any statistics to back this up?
Starvation wasn't a problem in the US during the Depression, despite the bizarre claims floating around the internet (7 million seems to be a popular figure, and the Jews were apparently responsible). The birth rate did decline, though.
It is, however, well documented that Stalin killed millions in
the Holodomor.
A garden will make your rations go further.
by Sixstrings » Fri 02 Apr 2010, 00:52:12
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mcgowanjm', '
')You do realize that millions died during the Last Depression, eh?
Do you have any statistics to back this up?
I hate to quote Pravda of all sources, but this is the best I could dig up:
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he researcher, Boris Borisov, in his article titled “The American Famine” estimated the victims of the financial crisis in the US at over seven million people. The researcher also directly compared the US events of 1932-1933 with Holodomor, or Famine, in the USSR during 1932-1933.
In the article, Borisov used the official data of the US Census Bureau. Having revised the number of the US population, birth and date rates, immigration and emigration, the researcher came to conclusion that the United States lost over seven million people during the famine of 1932-1933.
“
According to the US statistics, the US lost not less than 8 million 553 thousand people from 1931 to 1940. Afterwards, population growth indices change twice instantly exactly between 1930-1931: the indices drop and stay on the same level for ten years. There can no explanation to this phenomenon found in the extensive text of the report by the US Department of Commerce “Statistical Abstract of the United States,” the author wrote.
http://english.pravda.ru/world/americas/105255-0/ Everything else I found doesn't cite a source, but the number thrown around ranges from 7 - 16 million.
EDIT: I deleted a reference to the Dust Bowl after I found one source saying only 7,000 died from dustbowl pneumonia (though it did drive 2.5 million people into homelessness). But really who even knows, medical understanding wasn't what it is today, and lots of statistics weren't even reported or tracked.
by Loki » Fri 02 Apr 2010, 01:43:05
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', 'I') hate to quote Pravda of all sources, but this is the best I could dig up
Sorry, but it's complete and utter bullshit. There was hunger, yes, but 7 million people did not starve to death in the United States during the Great Depression. It just didn't happen.
I used to work as a research historian and I've done quite a bit of primary research (newpapers, photographs, reminiscences, etc.) on how people here in the Pacific Northwest fared during the Depression. NEVER did I come across anyone starving to death.
This is painfully obvious Russian propaganda, based entirely on a massaging of census data. An honest historian would never make a claim like this without a mountain of evidence.
A garden will make your rations go further.
-
Loki
- Expert
-
- Posts: 3509
- Joined: Sat 08 Apr 2006, 03:00:00
- Location: Oregon
-
by Sixstrings » Fri 02 Apr 2010, 03:09:10
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Loki', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', 'I') hate to quote Pravda of all sources, but this is the best I could dig up
Sorry, but it's complete and utter bullshit. There was hunger, yes, but 7 million people did not starve to death in the United States during the Great Depression. It just didn't happen.
Well I tend to agree with you Loki, I just posted the only info I was able to find. Here's another article on this from RT:
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')here did America’s missing millions go?
An attempt to get access to demographic statistics is followed by many surprises right away: statistics from 1932 were destroyed – or hidden very well.** They just don’t exist. No explanation is given. Yes, they appear later, in statistical reports as retrospective charts. A diligent researcher will also be surprised studying these charts.
First, if you believe American statistics, in the 10 years from 1931 to 1940, 8,553,000 people were lost. And what is interesting is that the numbers of increase in population change at one point by 2 times – exactly at the border between 1930/31. They fall and freeze at this level for 10 years. And just as suddenly, a decade later, they climb back up. No explanation for this is found in the extensive report of the US Department of commerce’s “Statistical Abstract of the United States”. Even thought it is full of comments on other less significant issues.
http://rt.com/prime-time/2008-10-15/Where_did_Americas_missing_millions_go_Holodomor_Lessons_.html Is anyone able to refute the claims about the census numbers? (l don't think a lower birthrate could account for the 8 million discrepancy -- people still have kids, whether they can feed them or not, and there was zero birth control back then).
by mcgowanjm » Fri 02 Apr 2010, 12:04:17
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', '8') million people can not just disappear like that. (sure they can) If that many people died of starvation, there would be a lot of supporting documentation, as well as some vivid memories on the part of surviving family members, just as there is with the holocaust. The depression was bad, but people were largely propped up by FDR's New Deal welfare programs.
Documentation? From who? Tom Joads? The Census Docs I have $this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')ccording to the calculations, in 1940, the US population should have amounted to at least 141,856,000 people, given that the previous demographic tendency was preserved. But in reality in 1940 the population was 131,409,000, 3,054,000 of which can be explained by the change in the migration dynamics.
Thus, 7,394,000 persons as of the year 1940 are actually absent. There is no official explanation of this fact.
By who? The folks who took over the now abandoned
farms?
I've noted that Famines track the world over. $this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'O')f the more than 1 million Ukrainian farmers expropriated in the early 1930s, ... On August 7, 1932,
Just like Oklahoma.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')First, if you believe American statistics, in the 10 years from 1931 to 1940, 8,553,000 people were lost. And what is interesting is that the numbers of increase in population change at one point by 2 times – exactly at the border between 1930/31. They fall and freeze at this level for 10 years. And just as suddenly, a decade later, they climb back up. No explanation for this is found in the extensive report of the US Department of commerce’s “Statistical Abstract of the United States”. Even thought it is full of comments on other less significant issues.
The issue is just avoided.
by Loki » Fri 02 Apr 2010, 12:42:45
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', '
')Is anyone able to refute the claims about the census numbers? (l don't think a lower birthrate could account for the 8 million discrepancy -- people still have kids, whether they can feed them or not, and there was zero birth control back then).
Pretty much all the modern mass famines that I've looked at have a political root cause, and are very well documented, even in tyrannical regimes. The Holomodor and
Mao's Great Famine are prime examples---communists seem to be particularly good at starving millions of people to death, but they're not as good at destroying public memory of the events.
We didn't have that political spark here in the US. We had the New Deal, which as Mos points out, actually helped people.
As for that Russian propagandist's "interpretation" of US census data, the numbers are almost certainly cooked. It is well known that birth rates dropped in the Depression---marriage rates dropped, and I suspect illegal use of abortions and birth control increased (they did have limited birth control in the 1930s). There was also significant out-migration of immigrants, some of it forced.
Besides, the onus of proof is on the so-called historian from Russia, since his claims go against EVERYTHING every other historian of the period has found. His bullshit seems to have struck a chord with the more fringe conspiracy types. I googled his name and Stormfront, Illuminati.org, etc. popped up.
A garden will make your rations go further.
-
Loki
- Expert
-
- Posts: 3509
- Joined: Sat 08 Apr 2006, 03:00:00
- Location: Oregon
-
by shortonsense » Sat 03 Apr 2010, 10:02:25
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mcgowanjm', '
')Bwahahahaha This really is too much. Science just isn't you.
I told you before, I tested your assumptions on starvation on large groups of Americans and couldn't find them. Please provide the evidence of starvation which was supposed to take place during March of 2010.
Certainly such a ridiculous claim wasn't mine, and certainly I just finished a 10 state trip and couldn't find a one. Think among the hundreds of people I interacted with, all the starving ones were hiding somewhere?
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mcgowanjm', '
')You do realize that millions died during the Last Depression, eh?
Loki seems to have handled your nonsense on this one already.
Why don't you work on finding a current starving American somewhere, that might lead you to his 49 million buddies which seem to be invisible.
by mcgowanjm » Sat 03 Apr 2010, 11:24:03
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mcgowanjm', '
')Bwahahahaha This really is too much. Science just isn't you.
And I've still seen nothing but Ad Hominems. Nothing refuting my claims. Again. How would you know Starvation. Especially when the State will do whatever it takes to hide the fact. See Stalin and the Ukraine/Chechens for details on quelling domestics.
You even believe to this day that last year's Harvest was the Second Largest in US History.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('shortonsense', '
')I told you before, I tested your assumptions on starvation on large groups of Americans and couldn't find them.
And I replied then that that you hadn't. You claiming to be
A Gallup/Rasmussen/Pew Researcher now?
Give me your paper or STFU on 'testing my assumptions'.
Until then, you did no such thing.
"Couldn't Find them." You can't find your ass with both
hands so what doe that mean?
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('shortonsense', 'P')lease provide the evidence of starvation which was supposed to take place during March of 2010.
Post above(Letters 'A-E')
And while you're perusing the Post above:
[quote=="shortonsense"]
Certainly such a ridiculous claim wasn't mine, and certainly I just finished a 10 state trip and couldn't find a one. Think among the hundreds of people I interacted with, all the starving ones were hiding somewhere?[/quote]
"Hundreds?" You talked with Hundreds on a 10 State Trip?
At least 250 people on 10 days = 25 per day. Busy man.
Problem: You could not do that and travel as rapidly as you evidently have and get anywhere off the beaten trail, so to speak.
The Ghettos of LA, Phoenix, Tucson, El Paso, the backwaters of
the Inland Empire, Mogollon Rim, Ruidoso, Panhandle of TX/OK
and that's just the SW US.
[quote=="shortonsense"]
Loki(has handled shit-I've seen no effort at any documentation-
just like 9/11 AAMOF) seems to have handled your nonsense on this one already.
Why don't you work on finding a current starving American somewhere, that might lead you to his 49 million buddies which seem to be invisible.[/quote]
The word "Buddies" says it all. Anyone not in your Cultural/
Income Bracket is not your "Buddie", not even anywhere in your life. You could not possibly have interacted with anyone near Poverty (well over a 1/3 of America, unless they were serving you). You're as clueless as a French Bourbon in 1789 of
what your Nation has become.
Finally, as our Nation's Real Unemployment as our Energy Growth
has been stopped dead in it's tracks, per John Williams Shadow Stats, is now 22%, you can tell us all, Sos, just how an
Unemployed Person eats in America today.
Where is YOUR Evidence.
