[mcgowanjm]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('VMarcHart', 'I') believe it's there. Can't remember. The tally for wrong predictions will go up at this month's tally.

However, pls remember that whereas this bill moves the conversation forward, it's far from being a good bill. Republicans made a mass out of it, and Democrats allowed it.

[Blacksmith]

You are assuming you lost Healthcare. Prehaps you won?

[Revi]

"We" didn't lose healthcare. We won.

Two days in the ICU and we're all broke. Something had to be done.

Healthcare is one of those things that the rest of the industrialized world figured out a long time ago.

[gnm]

We didn't win anything...

This bill was practically written by the insurance companies. Nothing in there will stop them from jacking premiums to the moon. And now you have to pay. Besides whats to stop young and healthy from just paying the "fine" to get out of the other 10k they would otherwise have to pay? Or those with catastrophic only policies? They'll probably just pay the fine. Its a win win for people who are frequently or chronically ill though and with healthy bowing out the pool becomes problematic - easy for them to justify the premium increases then! And who gets the tab for that unlimited coverage? taxpayers. And who profits? Insurance Companies.

I have a problem with the .gov telling me I have to buy something from a for profit entity just because I am alive. What next - buy a GM car or get fined? Its for your health and safety right? that old car you drive is unsafe!

-G

[Blacksmith]

Now I have "you alls" attention.

Consider insurance premiums, they will rise I think everyone agrees on that, then what is going to happen.

[VMarcHart]

Single payer for all? I must be reading another bill.

[Blacksmith]

When will the first doctors strike occur, anyone care to guess?

[Pretorian]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Blacksmith', '[')i]When will the first doctors strike occur, anyone care to guess?

[Pretorian]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Revi', '&')quot;We" didn't lose healthcare. We won.

Two days in the ICU and we're all broke. Something had to be done.

Healthcare is one of those things that the rest of the industrialized world figured out a long time ago.

[Rod_Cloutier]

Where I live in Canada, the provincial government imposes a 7% tax on everything, most of the money collected is used to pay for public healthcare.

Healthcare is not run by insurance companies here. We have a single payer system, the province collects the sales tax, and the doctors and hospitals all remit their invoices to the province for payment. Other than the 7% tax I pay on everything, I don't have a heath insurer, I don't pay monthly heathcare premiums. I've had multiple pre-existing conditions that have never effected by ability to have access to any medical treatments.I have no annual or lifetime limits on coverage. I have never been turned away for treatment, under any circumstance.

When Tommy Douglas in Canada in the 1960's brought forth our 'Medicare' laws, a similar and fierce debate was waged in Canada. Medicare has since become a sacrosant right to being a taxpaying citizen. I received an unsolicited e-mail today from Barack Obama's press office today that reads in part:

"The attacks are fierce. Deceptive ads are hitting the airwaves in swing districts. GOP lawmakers are pushing to repeal reform -- and preventing the Senate from performing basic functions. A few Republican attorneys general have launched a baseless attack to overturn the legislation. But that's not even the worst of it.

A conservative blogger posted the home address of Congressman Tom Perriello, urging tea partiers to "drop by." Other members have had death threats. Democratic offices have been vandalized"

This shows just how important a change Obama has brought forth and has fought for. If this healthcare bill is voted down the second time thru the US senate, then effectivly you can say that US democracy is no longer a viable, functioning entity.

I am beyond shocked that 'death threats' are being uttered on this lame watered down healthcare bill that pales against the strong, long lasting and successful healthcare systems like those that exist in countries such as Canada, Britian, Sweden, Austraila or other developed nations.

Obama should be recognised for his valiant and courageous attempts to build consensious and bi-partianship to acheive very real and tangible goals. His legacy, even if the healthcare bill fails, will be one of couragous effort against fierce odds to improve America for the better. As a Canadian, I wish we had someone of his calibre to come up here and run our country for us.

[Blacksmith]

I don't know how you pay for medicare in Manitoba, but I can assure you it is not through the GST. In Alberta we pay through income tax, since so many of our younger citizens were not paying their premiums. Untop of that the Federal government gives all provinces a lump sum to make sure they maintain universitality.
Yes, as Canadians we WON now our medical graduates will be forced to stay in Canada and not immigrate to the US upon graduation. WOW, we might get some of our specialists to return to their home soil, now that they have nowhere to go.

[Pretorian]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Repent', 'W')here I live in Canada, the provincial government imposes a 7% tax on everything, most of the money collected is used to pay for public healthcare.

Healthcare is not run by insurance companies here. We have a single payer system, the province collects the sales tax, and the doctors and hospitals all remit their invoices to the province for payment. Other than the 7% tax I pay on everything, I don't have a heath insurer, I don't pay monthly heathcare premiums. I've had multiple pre-existing conditions that have never effected by ability to have access to any medical treatments.I have no annual or lifetime limits on coverage. I have never been turned away for treatment, under any circumstance.

When Tommy Douglas in Canada in the 1960's brought forth our 'Medicare' laws, a similar and fierce debate was waged in Canada. Medicare has since become a sacrosant right to being a taxpaying citizen. I received an unsolicited e-mail today from Barack Obama's press office today that reads in part:


"The attacks are fierce. Deceptive ads are hitting the airwaves in swing districts. GOP lawmakers are pushing to repeal reform -- and preventing the Senate from performing basic functions. A few Republican attorneys general have launched a baseless attack to overturn the legislation. But that's not even the worst of it.

A conservative blogger posted the home address of Congressman Tom Perriello, urging tea partiers to "drop by." Other members have had death threats. Democratic offices have been vandalized"

This shows just how important a change Obama has brought forth and has fought for. If this healthcare bill is voted down the second time thru the US senate, then effectivly you can say that US democracy is no longer a viable, functioning entity.

I am beyond shocked that 'death threats' are being uttered on this lame watered down healthcare bill that pales against the strong, long lasting and successful healthcare systems like those that exist in countries such as Canada, Britian, Sweden, Austraila or other developed nations.

Obama should be recognised for his valiant and courageous attempts to build consensious and bi-partianship to acheive very real and tangible goals. His legacy, even if the healthcare bill fails, will be one of couragous effort against fierce odds to improve America for the better. As a Canadian, I wish we had someone of his calibre to come up here and run our country for us.

[Loki]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Repent', '[')b]A conservative blogger posted the home address of Congressman Tom Perriello, urging tea partiers to "drop by." Other members have had death threats. Democratic offices have been vandalized"

This shows just how important a change Obama has brought forth and has fought for. If this healthcare bill is voted down the second time thru the US senate, then effectivly you can say that US democracy is no longer a viable, functioning entity.

[Revi]

I wonder if this healthcare debate is a way to keep our minds off of what else is happening?

I heard somewhere that they are downgrading our bonds.

Has anyone else heard anything like that?

[Revi]

I wonder if this healthcare debate is a way to keep our minds off of what else is happening?

I heard somewhere that they are downgrading our bonds.

Has anyone else heard anything like that?

Here's an article that talks about how it will affect the budget:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 02353.html

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mcgowanjm', '
')Therefore I posit that I was correct with My Bold Prediction
that a Single Payer Medicare for All bill would be passed by the end of March, first week of April.

[EnergyUnlimited]

It seem that large proportion of Americans is so poor and indebted that they simply cannot pay compulsory health insurance under scheme known as "Obamacare".

Now 70% of voters in Missouri rejected plan.
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/govt ... 6de56.html

The same is likely to happen in few other states and all taken together will make it easy for Republicans to scrap healthcare reform once they regained House (as is expected shortly) and presidency later.

What are your opinions about this situation?
Please consider poll options.

Why Americans are rejecting Obamacare?
1. Americans are already so poor and indebted that compulsory insurance would destroy already fragile family budgets. 7 21%
2. Americans love their insurers and hate anything what resembles socialism as per policy that better dead than red. 2 6%
3. Americans are stupid and got manipulated by insurance industry. 9 27%
4. Americans don't believe that new scheme would not end up to be a ripoff or another scam. 11 33%
5. Other (please explain). 4 12%
Total votes : 33

[ian807]

Can drivers be forced to buy automobile insurance?

[Ludi]

No one is being "forced" to buy health insurance.

http://www.kff.org/healthreform/upload/8061.pdf

"Require U.S. citizens and legal residents to have qualifying health coverage. Those without coverage
pay a tax penalty of the greater of $695 per year up to a maximum of three times that amount ($2,085)
per family or 2.5% of household income. The penalty will be phased-in according to the following
schedule: $95 in 2014, $325 in 2015, and $695 in 2016 for the flat fee or 1.0% of taxable income in 2014,
2.0% of taxable income in 2015, and 2.5% of taxable income in 2016. Beginning after 2016, the penalty
will be increased annually by the cost-of-living adjustment. Exemptions will be granted for financial
hardship, religious objections, American Indians, those without coverage for less than three months,
undocumented immigrants, incarcerated individuals, those for whom the lowest cost plan option
exceeds 8% of an individual’s income, and those with incomes below the tax filing threshold (in 2009 the
threshold for taxpayers under age 65 was $9,350 for singles and $18,700 for couples)."

[basil_hayden]

I can't speak for others, but my dislike of "Obamacare" is this:

I pay my insurance premium, non-payers do not.

Non-payers already get treated; I don't see them getting turned away, just made to jump more hoops at the time of service.

That treatment cost is eaten by the hospital and makes up a portion of overhead.

Overhead raises my bill.

I pay my bill.

Therefore, I've already paid for the non-payer's treatment, as well as my own.

Why do I need another government hand in my pocket, especially the most inefficient hand ever devised on the face of the planet? Me and the non-payer will not get any better medical tratment, but it will cost us both more. Some bureaucrat will be spending the difference on hookers and coke.

And Ludi, if I'm going to get penalized at least 1% of my income if I do not have insurance, how is that not being forced to have health insurance? Oh, I get it, I can spend $695 to not have insurance. That money goes to some bureaucrat's hooker and coke habit.

In the end, medical treatment will just cost more for no improvement in services whatsoever, unless you're a bureaucrat that likes hookers and coke.