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The influence of Bias & Media on Peak Oil believability

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The influence of Bias & Media on Peak Oil believability

Unread postby Kristen » Thu 11 Mar 2010, 15:54:43

With the growth of online media in the last fifteen years, newspapers are becoming obsolete, with their demise comes a larger problem; misinformation. This problem is not new, however most authors have been rather ambiguous in their conclusions. A closer look on how unconscious human behavior impacts this issue should be given, especially with the news regarding Peak Oil--Spectators caused the oil price spike of 2008 vs. demand of oil was higher then supply rings a bell. Unfortunately, no large government agency has confirmed or denied these claims in midst of smaller entities giving alternative stories. The reason for this unequilibrium is explained here.

Confirmation Bias is a human condition that causes a person to seek out only information that matches their preconceived notions. It also can be in the form of interpreting data to reaffirm a given truth a person holds. This was the subject of an experiment held by Charles Lord, Lee Ross, and Mark Lepper. They gave subjects two studies on the death penalty—one for each side of the argument, Regardless of being pro or anti death penalty, the subjects chose the study most reliable to be the one that shared their viewpoint, even though the latter was more detailed. This illustrates two key things; the human conscience does not like contradictions, humans are irrational.

Another bias is looped with Confirmation Bias called Blind-Spot Bias. This often rears its ugly head during debate on the very subject of being bias. Dr. Emily Prolin discovered that when asked to rate ones level of bias compared to their fellow peers, humans will certainly assume the position they are less susceptible to bias and stereotyping. Blind-Spot Bias would ultimately prevent a person from realizing their confirmation bias. The question then becomes, how do I really know what heck is going on?

Thanks to the trusty—insofar—Internet, a simple Google News search shows a real life example of contradictions in the reporting of Peak Oil. The first story in the results claims “Peak Oil Period” to Be Attained By 2014, Alarm Scientists.” The fifth exclaims “there never was such a thing as "Peak Oil" or "Peak Hydrocarbons".. Economic success is balanced on how...” One gives you a feeling of panic, the other of ease. The contradictions in media today are of course in all subjects. The size of the Internet also allows an endless number of fictitious realities created simultaneously. As our perceptions become more divided, the effect has yet to be determined—depending on the severity of division will ultimately conclude the answer.

Many may be asking themselves if print media has any reliability? My answer is undecided. Every writer is prone to bias because they must create a voice in which to report the news. Also newspapers are littered with stories promoting new products and businesses while advertisements’ scatter in between. (The words conflict of interest comes to mind) However historically journalists were affriended with the common folk. I would like to think the historical significance of journalism should weigh on a few authors’ consciences.

As gas prices scamper to three dollars a gallon, I expect peak oil to finally gain some traction. Although because of the Normalcy Bias—the refusal to plan for an event because it has not happened before—should do us in regardless, or perhaps the argument that technology will save us all will come to suffice.

- Kristen Mcgreagor; Chanhassen, MN
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Re: The influence of Bias & Media on Peak Oil believability

Unread postby shortonsense » Thu 11 Mar 2010, 20:39:29

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Kristen', '
')As gas prices scamper to three dollars a gallon, I expect peak oil to finally gain some traction. Although because of the Normalcy Bias—the refusal to plan for an event because it has not happened before—should do us in regardless, or perhaps the argument that technology will save us all will come to suffice.

- Kristen Mcgreagor; Chanhassen, MN


An interesting perspective, and perhaps important. For example, do you believe that the implications within your statement are because of your biased view on the issue of peak oil, or your unbiased view?

Look at statement as an example..."as gas prices scamper to three dollars a gallon, I expect peak oil to finally gain some traction". Are you saying that the price of gasoline, at 75% of its nominal height of just 2 summers ago, is more important to your view of peak oil than the fact of peak oil itself 5 years ago?

Is it possible to then assume that your view of peak oil has nothing to do with peak oil, but only the price of gasoline? Look at this graph:

http://inflationdata.com/inflation/imag ... _chart.htm

Notice that the real price of gasoline at the most recent datapoint (Nov2009) is much less than the price of gasoline in the 1978-1984 timeframe, which was one of the last global peak oil time periods. Maybe peak oils cause higher prices However, from 1931 to 1942, gasoline was also more expensive, and that certainly was not the effect of a global peak oil. So is it reasonable to think that any particular peak oil has ANYTHING to do with the price of gasoline?
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Re: The influence of Bias & Media on Peak Oil believability

Unread postby mos6507 » Thu 11 Mar 2010, 21:11:36

People these days tend to determine truth or fiction based on a paranoid litmus test. In other words, they look at the messenger and they try to determine what that guy is selling, who is funding them, and so on. This isn't the way it used to be, but it is now. The idea that someone would ever give out what they really feel is objective data is excluded from the equation. Everybody's considered dirty, whether it's big oil or the IPCC. The raw data is rarely factored in. Hell, the data itself isn't even trusted. Even if it were, most people can't grasp big concepts like peak oil or overshoot. If something doesn't happen right in front of your face, it's not trusted. "If the gloves don't fit, you must acquit", basically. I'm not saying some mistrust is unjustified, but that most people are very poor at determining what to trust and what not to trust. Our trust-meters are broken. That sort of extreme myopia is fine in a hunter-gatherer society where what happens over the next hill is irrelevant to survival, but in a population teetering on the verge of die-off, it's deadly.
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Re: The influence of Bias & Media on Peak Oil believability

Unread postby Kristen » Thu 11 Mar 2010, 23:33:08

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('shortonsense', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Kristen', '
')As gas prices scamper to three dollars a gallon, I expect peak oil to finally gain some traction. Although because of the Normalcy Bias—the refusal to plan for an event because it has not happened before—should do us in regardless, or perhaps the argument that technology will save us all will come to suffice.

- Kristen Mcgreagor; Chanhassen, MN


An interesting perspective, and perhaps important. For example, do you believe that the implications within your statement are because of your biased view on the issue of peak oil, or your unbiased view?

Look at statement as an example..."as gas prices scamper to three dollars a gallon, I expect peak oil to finally gain some traction". Are you saying that the price of gasoline, at 75% of its nominal height of just 2 summers ago, is more important to your view of peak oil than the fact of peak oil itself 5 years ago?

Is it possible to then assume that your view of peak oil has nothing to do with peak oil, but only the price of gasoline? Look at this graph:

http://inflationdata.com/inflation/imag ... _chart.htm

Notice that the real price of gasoline at the most recent datapoint (Nov2009) is much less than the price of gasoline in the 1978-1984 timeframe, which was one of the last global peak oil time periods. Maybe peak oils cause higher prices However, from 1931 to 1942, gasoline was also more expensive, and that certainly was not the effect of a global peak oil. So is it reasonable to think that any particular peak oil has ANYTHING to do with the price of gasoline?


A very important question indeed--several actually. I certainly have biases as well as anyone else does. You are right, historically, the price of gasoline creshendoed without a huge conflict in supply and demand. However it also is reasonable to think of price increases as a symptom of peak oil. Both are good arguments.

Inflation vs Deflation I will come back to at a latter time, I'm exhausted tonight.
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Re: The influence of Bias & Media on Peak Oil believability

Unread postby Kristen » Thu 11 Mar 2010, 23:47:16

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', 'P')eople these days tend to determine truth or fiction based on a paranoid litmus test. In other words, they look at the messenger and they try to determine what that guy is selling, who is funding them, and so on. This isn't the way it used to be, but it is now. The idea that someone would ever give out what they really feel is objective data is excluded from the equation. Everybody's considered dirty, whether it's big oil or the IPCC. The raw data is rarely factored in. Hell, the data itself isn't even trusted. Even if it were, most people can't grasp big concepts like peak oil or overshoot. If something doesn't happen right in front of your face, it's not trusted. "If the gloves don't fit, you must acquit", basically. I'm not saying some mistrust is unjustified, but that most people are very poor at determining what to trust and what not to trust. Our trust-meters are broken. That sort of extreme myopia is fine in a hunter-gatherer society where what happens over the next hill is irrelevant to survival, but in a population teetering on the verge of die-off, it's deadly.


Our trust meters are broken. There is blatant conflicts of interest across the whole spectrum of Government, Finances, Public, Private, Banking, Marketing, Manufactoring, etc industries that make me wince when opening a newspaper. I imagine all these iinconsistencies created the intense paranoia in some people, which is quite a tragedy. A individual with such a Paranoiad streak is experiencing the hopelesness of overfear. My hat goes down for those who seek the raw data actually and perform their own computations.
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Re: The influence of Bias & Media on Peak Oil believability

Unread postby mos6507 » Fri 12 Mar 2010, 02:19:45

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Kristen', '
')My hat goes down for those who seek the raw data actually and perform their own computations.


Yes, but how many people have the time or the aptitude to be their own researcher?

When you go to the doctor, and they tell you that you need heart surgery, you might get a 2nd opinion. If the 2nd doctor also says you need heart surgery, are you going to keep going from doctor to doctor until you get the diagnosis you want? No. Why? Because at some point you realize that somebody who has spent many years in medical school might, just MIGHT know more than you do. So much more in fact that them giving the raw data to you won't help. Can you read an EKG? How about blood work? How much research could you possibly do to compare with the years of medical school of a doctor, let alone an experienced one? You want to risk your life on playing doctor?

That's kind of where we are, but the immediate threat to our wellbeing is just not being felt. People, if anything, are thinking about their pocketbook or some snap emotional reaction. Short-term thinking. So we feel more comfortable rendering our own diagnosis based on a smattering of pseudo-science here, a little tinfoil there, whether it be an Alex Jones DVD or some random webpage talking about abiotic oil.

What this has done is basically cut the experts out of the decisionmaking process. Hubbert wanted a technocracy for this very reason. It's easy to see how complex problems require people with dedicated knowledge in these areas. The average person can't even find Iraq on a map let alone understand concepts like export-land-model, EROEI, or the complex math involved in climate simulation or limits-to-growth simulations.

In days gone by, people used to respect others who were specialists, people who knew more than you did. Now we fear the power they may be able to wield over us. That explains the appeal of Bush or Palin and our march towards the comfort of idiocracy. We seek out people we identify with rather than respect. We've kind of confused the two terms. If someone is too smart maybe they'll take advantage of us? Can't have that. Well, if you cut them out of the loop, there are negative consequences as well.

When society works as a respectful and cohesive unit, you have impressive results, like the manhattan project or Apollo. A society in which the intellectuals have been scapegoated, well, it's the first step towards dystopia. This was the exact plot of the original V miniseries in the 1980s, and I'm not sure Kenneth Johnson ever thought scientists would be targeted directly.

Image

It was a plot device regarding the visitors and an allegory for the holocaust of WWII. I find it really ironic that we're seeing this sort of thing actually happen, and not via aliens, but by our own flawed human nature, AND that the new V miniseries has reversed its ideology to fearmonger about Obama and universal healthcare!

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Re: The influence of Bias & Media on Peak Oil believability

Unread postby Kristen » Fri 12 Mar 2010, 03:19:11

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'H')ow much research could you possibly do to compare with the years of medical school of a doctor, let alone an experienced one? You want to risk your life on playing doctor?


I was just giving an honorable mention of some of the writers here who have made graphs from data they obtained.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'S')o we feel more comfortable rendering our own diagnosis based on a smattering of pseudo-science here, a little tinfoil there, whether it be an Alex Jones DVD or some random webpage talking about abiotic oil.


Was it indeed "smattered" together? I prefer to say it was crafted.

As far as everyone else, I agree that it is unwise to not give respect to the intellectuals Idolization certainly has castrated us from pulling things together.
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Re: The influence of Bias & Media on Peak Oil believability

Unread postby shortonsense » Fri 12 Mar 2010, 03:38:34

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Kristen', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'H')ow much research could you possibly do to compare with the years of medical school of a doctor, let alone an experienced one? You want to risk your life on playing doctor?


I was just giving an honorable mention of some of the writers here who have made graphs from data they obtained.


And how would you feel if any particular hand made graph contradicted your belief in peak oil?

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Kristen', '
')As far as everyone else, I agree that it is unwise to not give respect to the intellectuals Idolization certainly has castrated us from pulling things together.


Again...assuming things need pulled together is implicit in your statement. From the perspective of, say, the shortages and rationing of the 70's, you can make quite an objective case for an old energy crisis being much worse than the most recent peak oil, assuming your statement of "pulling things together" is a peak oil context comment. Also, if your comment is more "economic" related, I'm guessing that an unemployed person in any decade would think that things need "pulled together" and it doesn't require a credit crisis, lending crisis, S&L crisis, Black Thursday, or any other kind of economic problem to be a reasonable thought. And again, have nothing to do with peak oil. So at what time does the point of view, with a built in perspective, have the bias come right along with it?
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Re: The influence of Bias & Media on Peak Oil believability

Unread postby mos6507 » Fri 12 Mar 2010, 05:09:17

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Re: The influence of Bias & Media on Peak Oil believability

Unread postby Kristen » Fri 12 Mar 2010, 10:35:47

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('shortonsense', 'A')nd how would you feel if any particular hand made graph contradicted your belief in peak oil? Again...assuming things need pulled together is implicit in your statement. From the perspective of, say, the shortages and rationing of the 70's, you can make quite an objective case for an old energy crisis being much worse than the most recent peak oil, assuming your statement of "pulling things together" is a peak oil context comment. Also, if your comment is more "economic" related, I'm guessing that an unemployed person in any decade would think that things need "pulled together" and it doesn't require a credit crisis, lending crisis, S&L crisis, Black Thursday, or any other kind of economic problem to be a reasonable thought. And again, have nothing to do with peak oil. So at what time does the point of view, with a built in perspective, have the bias come right along with it?
If there was a graph that contradicted my idea, I would have to update my belief on when peak oil will occur, I'm certain that it will occur someday though.

You make a good point in pointing out how the severity of the 70's crisis versus now was much more inconvenient for the citizens. Being born in 85, my frame of reference pertaining to economic crisis' is limited. Perhaps because this is truly the worst time in my life something of such magnitude has occurred, it appears much more troubling. By pulling things together I meant planning for the future more than anything. If there is to be oil scarcity, supply could become unpredictable; shouldn't there be some sort of plan in place just in case?

As far as my bias of peak oil. There is of course some bias involved. The fact that I'm reading news from peakoil.com vs oilabudance.com is a good example of information bias.
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Re: The influence of Bias & Media on Peak Oil believability

Unread postby Kristen » Fri 12 Mar 2010, 10:37:05

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', '[')url=http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cif-green/2010/mar/08/belief-in-climate-change-science]Monbiot said it best.[/url]


Very true indeed. It doesn't help that different scientific experts preach different reasons for climate change.
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Re: The influence of Bias & Media on Peak Oil believability

Unread postby shortonsense » Fri 12 Mar 2010, 11:09:55

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Kristen', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('shortonsense', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Kristen', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'H')ow much research could you possibly do to compare with the years of medical school of a doctor, let alone an experienced one? You want to risk your life on playing doctor?


I was just giving an honorable mention of some of the writers here who have made graphs from data they obtained.


And how would you feel if any particular hand made graph contradicted your belief in peak oil?


If there was a graph that contradicted my idea, I would have to update my belief on when peak oil will occur, I'm certain that it will occur someday though.


Well, that would depend on the particulars of your idea. Peak oil encompasses quite a few concepts, not all of which are actually related to oil. Myself, I am always surprised that when peak oil, proclaimed to be historical fact years ago, is confused with an event still off in the future somewhere.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Kristen', '
')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('shorty', '
')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Kristen', '
')As far as everyone else, I agree that it is unwise to not give respect to the intellectuals Idolization certainly has castrated us from pulling things together.

Again...assuming things need pulled together is implicit in your statement. From the perspective of, say, the shortages and rationing of the 70's, you can make quite an objective case for an old energy crisis being much worse than the most recent peak oil, assuming your statement of "pulling things together" is a peak oil context comment. So at what time does the point of view, with a built in perspective, have the bias come right along with it?

You make a good point in pointing out how the severity of the 70's crisis versus now was much more inconvenient for the citizens. Being born in 85, my frame of reference pertaining to economic crisis' is limited. Perhaps because this is truly the worst time in my life something of such magnitude has occurred, it appears much more troubling. By pulling things together I meant planning for the future more than anything. If there is to be oil scarcity, supply could become unpredictable; shouldn't there be some sort of plan in place just in case?

Your age places you firmly in the "mostly never seen bad economic times" class of global citizen. To this particular age group, I have no doubt that the uncertainty of modern economic times can be quite unsettlingly. But that is why we have history books, so that the young may learn that once upon a time, the world was not the sort of place it is today. This age group might also have a difficult time understanding that absolutely nothing within the peak oil argument is original, and has been extensively debated before, written about, proclaimed from the highest political office, used as a hammer to try and force compliance, etc etc.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Kirsten', '
')As far as my bias of peak oil. There is of course some bias involved. The fact that I'm reading news from peakoil.com vs oilabudance.com is a good example of information bias.

I would agree. But reading both strikes me as a reasonable way to try and scale in the issue.
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Re: The influence of Bias & Media on Peak Oil believability

Unread postby mcgowanjm » Fri 12 Mar 2010, 12:20:35

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')I would agree. But reading both strikes me as a reasonable way to try and scale in the issue.


The problem is there is no way to 'scale in' the problem from Ignorance.

It's an "All in" moment. Like every other issue that PO affects.

Which is why the Media is avoiding PO like the plague.

It brings the 'Growth Meme' to a screeching halt. And why the Media is becoming obsolete as a newspaper. It's boring now.

And like your favorite Sports Team that you first scream at as they're losing, as they continue their BAU, you then just ignore them.
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Re: The influence of Bias & Media on Peak Oil believability

Unread postby pablonite » Fri 12 Mar 2010, 12:28:55

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('kristen', 'B')y pulling things together I meant planning for the future more than anything. If there is to be oil scarcity, supply could become unpredictable; shouldn't there be some sort of plan in place just in case?


I am surprised more people are not seeing the "plan". Sorry about your lack of "paranoia", "Confirmation Bias" and "Blind-Spot Bias" sound like interesting theories but I am going to go with cognitive dissonance. You recognize the free press is "broken" but fear its demise? You might want to ask yourself why?

Here is a good audio interview about alternative media (1.5 hours)

http://www.corbettreport.com/index.php? ... umentation
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'D')escription: The Corbett Report, PeaceRevolution.org and MediaMonarchy.com team up to bring you Signal to Noise: A three-way conversation on the media and the message. In this sweeping discussion, we break down the media, its use as a tool for misdirection by the oligarchical elite, and how we can work together to create and support a genuine grassroots alternative media.


An illustration of what extreme cognitive dissonance can do to someone later in life is illustrated in this amazing video interview of Norman Dodd by G Edward Griffen...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUYCBfmIcHM
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'N')orman Dodd was interviewed in 1982 by G. Edward Griffin regarding the time he spent as the head researcher for the Reece Committee...


The secretary helping Dodd pull secret meeting minutes literally went insane after realizing that tax exempt foundations like Carnegie and Ford do not always mean well for the people. Be careful!
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Re: The influence of Bias & Media on Peak Oil believability

Unread postby shortonsense » Sat 13 Mar 2010, 00:37:02

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mcgowanjm', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')I would agree. But reading both strikes me as a reasonable way to try and scale in the issue.


The problem is there is no way to 'scale in' the problem from Ignorance.


Are you claiming that both peakers and cornocopians are ignorant? And of course one can scale in the issue....its called reading what the lunatics at the ends of the spectrum scream at each other and deciding for yourself which ones more of a lunatic. If you are led to the conclusion that both are lunatics, at the very least you have defined the outer bounds of a given system.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mcgowanjm', '
')It's an "All in" moment. Like every other issue that PO affects.


I do not have a frame of reference for what is an "all in" moment in your world. I do know that at PO+5, peak oil hasn't effected near as much, or even the same things, which its proponents, contemporaneous to 2005, claimed.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mcgowanjm', '
')Which is why the Media is avoiding PO like the plague.


All evidence in the MSM, like, TODAY, to the contrary?

Shows up in the business section no less.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35838273/ns ... nd_energy/


$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mcgowanjm', '
')It brings the 'Growth Meme' to a screeching halt. And why the Media is becoming obsolete as a newspaper. It's boring now.

Interesting generalizations. Does the rest of the world have to believe in your "meme" for it to work? Or does wishing make it so?

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mcgowanjm', '
')And like your favorite Sports Team that you first scream at as they're losing, as they continue their BAU, you then just ignore them.

I didn't ignore the Steelers between their early glory years and their more recent glory years, so certainly your example doesn't work in this newest scenario either.
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