[SeaGypsy]

Looking at the Bloom box, combined with advances being made in solar technology, with both apparently getting away from rare earth minerals and metals; for the 1st time it is starting to look like some real possible sustainable alternative to oil/ coal/ nukes for baseload power ands transport fuels is possible. These areas both have their own threads, I am starting this one specificly about the combination of these technologies.
I think it is starting to look very interesting, do others here?

[TheDude]

No.

[rangerone314]

How many square miles of solar panels do we need for transporation sector?

[ian807]

Not substantially. Gas fields deplete far more rapidly than oil reservoirs. This just speeds it up.

As for solar cells, tell me when I can:

1) Buy a 75% efficient panel at Wal-Mart for under $100.
2) The panel has its own integrated voltage protection, removable rechargeable battery, inverter and phase synchronizer.
3) The power produced comes in at about 10 cents per KWH.
4) I can hook it up by plugging it into my outside electrical socket without an electrician.

Until then, solar panels are either a rich mans toy, a military necessity or a pricey niche market device for small items like parking meters, camping equipment, signs, or water pumps in remote locations.

Cheers!

[TheAntiDoomer]

Yes. But these 2 techs are only the beggining. Remember this was KPs first clean energy investment 7 years ago and they are just having their first breakthrough. More than likely there are several more projects awaiting for reveal in the pipeline. So like SOS says oil is probably obsolete already it just doesn't know it yet.

[TheAntiDoomer]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TheDude', 'N')o.

[Dezakin]

Oil depletion is expensive and important because of the trillions of dollars in sunk infrastructure costs dependent on liquid hydrocarbon fuel as an energy storage medium, not because there weren't alternatives. Rising oil prices means larger dependence on synthetic liquid hydrocarbons, and energy conversion technology is incidental at best. The difference between running a fuel cell and an internal combustion engine just wont be that big compared to the larger issues of large infrastructure and fuel supply chains.

As for solar technology, sure it has a place when global civilization approaches the waste heat limit of earth; Issues of maintenance and capital cost go further than weather solar cells themselves are inexpensive enough to put everywhere. In addition there are many hidden costs for solar such as power transmission infrastructure and energy storage. Its not going to be competitive with nuclear power for the next century. But then, it doesn't have to be.

[TheDude]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TheAntiDoomer', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TheDude', 'N')o.

[shortonsense]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', 'L')ooking at the Bloom box, combined with advances being made in solar technology, with both apparently getting away from rare earth minerals and metals; for the 1st time it is starting to look like some real possible sustainable alternative to oil/ coal/ nukes for baseload power ands transport fuels is possible. These areas both have their own threads, I am starting this one specificly about the combination of these technologies.
I think it is starting to look very interesting, do others here?

[Keith_McClary]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TheAntiDoomer', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TheDude', 'N')o.

[Keith_McClary]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('shortonsense', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', 'L')ooking at the Bloom box, combined with advances being made in solar technology, with both apparently getting away from rare earth minerals and metals; for the 1st time it is starting to look like some real possible sustainable alternative to oil/ coal/ nukes for baseload power ands transport fuels is possible. These areas both have their own threads, I am starting this one specificly about the combination of these technologies.
I think it is starting to look very interesting, do others here?

[SeaGypsy]

The Dude, while I understand the logic of your argument here, there is an element of straw man about it: Others have always exagerated/ lied about their potential, therefore these technologists must also be lieing/ exagerating?

My idea of a technotopian future would be where the total of human wastes can be put through a local system, embodied energy can be extracted, before inert leftover residuals can be utilized safely as fertiliser. Effectively getting close to a closed loop system.
To my way of thinking these systems are getting ever closer to the point where this becomes not only possible but affordable, then mandatory.

The argument that the energy infrastructure will be so costly to replace that humanity will die off rather than pay this cost ignores the primal drive of humans, to live.

Was this predictable? Is continued success predictable? Well that is in the mind of the reader. There is a saying that the great thing about being a pessimist is that one is almost always right but occaisionally pleasantly surprised; whilst an optimist is almost always disappointed but occaisionally gets to say "I told you so!".

[shortonsense]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Keith_McClary', 'H')ow are you Shortonsense Monkeys investing your retirement stash?

[Keith_McClary]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('shortonsense', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Keith_McClary', 'H')ow are you Shortonsense Monkeys investing your retirement stash?

[SeaGypsy]

Short has his tongue firmly planted in his cheek. He is betting indirectly on alternative tech replacing oil deficits or he would not be betting on the future of the USD$ via T bills. The way he sees it there is plenty of oil left to see the promise of these technologies come to fruition well before the US economy tanks to such an extent that T bills would become worth significantly less. Excuse me putting words in your mouth Shorty, but that is what I am reading here.

[Carlhole]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Keith_McClary', 'L')eave those to the Clever Monkeys.

[NeoPeasant]

The technological solutions to our energy problems have been just around the corner since I was old enough to pay attention. Which I recall was roughly around the time I was reading about how the AMC Pacer would revolutionize the automobile.

[Homesteader]

[TWilliam]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('NeoPeasant', 'T')he technological solutions to our energy problems have been just around the corner since I was old enough to pay attention. Which I recall was roughly around the time I was reading about how the AMC Pacer would revolutionize the automobile.

[shortonsense]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Keith_McClary', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('shortonsense', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Keith_McClary', 'H')ow are you Shortonsense Monkeys investing your retirement stash?