[argyle]

I've been lurking here for several years, but since I do have exp. in cattle/pigs farming, I just want to give some advise

I'm from Europe (Belgium), so I don't know how the situation is US or elsewhere but, why don't you pick a dual type of breed that is locally kept by farmers?

I would do so because then I won't have to keep a bull around when I want to have calves, but just go to a local farmer for it (less expensive then keeping a bull around). Next to that, you will be able to profit from the farmers selection of his bull (out of his many bullcavles) and get the best genetic advantages (not to mention, easy access to the same breed you are keeping and genetic diversity).

Also, there are lots of dual breeds, but you should define what you want out of it. Mostly Beef, or mostly Milk.. Most dual breeds do have a tendency to be better at one then the other anyway.
Do you have a busy/good job now, which defines how much time do you want to dedicate to it? Keeping cattle for beef takes a lot less daily effort/routine then keeping milk-cattle. (not to mention the equipment and keeping it clean and well tended). Generally speaking dairy cattle are easier to handle, more friendly, then beef cattle as they have been selected for that trait generation after generation. No farmer puts up with an unruly milkcow twice a day.. Those are kinda send to the slaughterhouse pretty fast.
A beef-cow that is unruly will be tolerated more as they don't require daily handeling (to some degree).

The site is in dutch:
http://www.zuivelonline.nl/?PageID=713

For Milk I would probably pick:
Holstein roodbont
or
Mrij (maas-rijn-ijssel) -> good duel breed, best for milk though

For meat:
Belgisch witblauw -> also know as Belgian Blue, or 'Monster cow". Probably most productive beef-breed ever (converting kgs of feed to kgs of meat).
In light of PO
I wouldn't recommend them as they require caesarean in 90% of the cases to give birth. For the rest they are a very good choice. Not aggresive (at least not as limosin or charolais).
Cattle breeding is very intensive in Belgium, and so the belgian blue breed works for us. As prob. not in US, where ranching/feedlots are used (and less care goes into each animal seperatly which they do need -> prob. prone to more injuries otherwise).

So I would then prob. pick
"Mrij" (maas-rijn-ijssel) -> good duel breed, best for milk though or a cross between them and "Verbeterd roodbont"

-> mostly because in small-scale, I would keep the cows & heifers and raise the bull-calves (but slaughter them before the get 2yrs). The breed is easy to handle, and I don't want the trouble of any old bulls around. (i've already seen to much of their pointy ends anyway)

[Schmuto]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('argyle', 'I')'ve been lurking here for several years, but since I do have exp. in cattle/pigs farming, I just want to give some advise. . . (i've already seen to much of their pointy ends anyway)

[argyle]

The biggest thing for me to go local is to have access to other farmer's bulls (atleast that is still possible here in Belgium/europe small farms), and hence all their work in enhancing their bloodline and access to genetic diversity.

if you buy and "excotic" breed, make sure you have enough access to other breeders with a large enough genetic pool.

edit
-> This is the only thing that keeps me from getting dexters (miniature cow, dual breed), I can keep as pet cows now anyway so I might still buy them. Then again, i might aswell teamup with my dad and get me a Belgian Blue heifer for meat. (and some milk)

[deMolay]

Here in Northern Alberta, we have a lot of predators. Which is one of the reasons that I prefer Highlands. That and extreme weather. From plus 40 C to minus 50C. I find exotics have too many problems calving, and their lives are very short. My Highland cows will calve for 15-18 years. The exotics are lucky to last 5-6 years and then their feet give out. Too big of calves and to big of cows, that won't defend themselves and need constant care and lots of vets. With a very short life span. One Highland outlasts about 3 exotics and eat a whole lot less feed with out a barn or pampering. Your enviroment is very important as well as your imput costs. Highland drawbacks. It takes longer to finish a calf to market weight. But you get $200 bucks for the skull if it has horns. And a premium for the beef.

[Ferretlover]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '[')url=http://sanders.senate.gov//legislation/issue/?id=90C28EE4-5607-4EAF-90B4-1E400D5458D3]Dairy Crisis[/url] from Senator Bernie Sanders blog/newsletter:
[Farmers are hurting. A Vermont dairy operation is for sale that had been run by the same family since George Washington was president. Warning of "a disaster in the making," Sen. Bernie Sanders has met with and sent a letter to the U.S. agriculture secretary about boosting price supports. He also asked the Justice Department antitrust division to take "a very serious look" at Dean Foods Inc., the Dallas-based company that dominates the New England milk market. …
Dean controls approximately 70 percent of the dairy market in New England and 40 percent nationally. It processes and markets such well-known brands as Dean's, Garelick Farms, and Horizon Organic. It sells processed milk to major retailers such as Wal-Mart Supercenters, Sam's Club, Giant, and Stop & Shop.
According to the U.S. Department of Agriculture, the All Milk Price paid to dairy farmers dropped over the last year from $19.30 per hundredweight to $11.40 per hundredweight. In other words, in June 2008 farmers were receiving nearly 70 percent more per gallon of milk than they were in June 2009. Prices that dairy farmers are receiving today are at the same level as they were three decades ago, even though the costs of production and every other expense facing farmers has gone up many times over that period. …

[Arsenal]

Better buy some sponges... Farmers are going to start dumping milk soon.

[notill]

My brother and I were talking a while ago, He and his wife were married in 1984. When they were married in

1984
she made $12 per hour as a nurse,
he sold alfalfa hay for $90 per ton,
and I bought grain for my cattle for $120 per ton.

Today,
she makes $40 per hour,
he is selling hay for $90 per ton,
and I am buying grain for $120 per ton.

Agriculture has to be in contention for the most taken for granted, and the most vital, industries in the world. I have to question the vitality of American agriculture.

[dukey]

in the UK it's the same.
The big buyers control a vast amount of the market and they squeeze and squeeze the producers until basically they go bankrupt. Only the super huge farms that basically keep the animals in all year (battery chicken style) can make money and stay in business. I think in the last 10 years 50% of the dairy farmers have gone in the UK.

[notill]

dukey

That's interesting. In my area of Oregon, I'd say that at least 75% of the farmers of 15 years ago have gone bankrupt, and the average age of those left is maybe 60. I see food and oil production in the same light.......the goose (geese) that's layed the golden egg.

[dukey]

the average age of farmers in the UK is 60 years old

[The_Virginian]

great...bankrupt the "little" guys so you can gobble up the assets at a fire sale for increased vertical intergration...

[SeaGypsy]

While these retail monopoly scams are deplorable, dairy is an area of farming which should be phased out anyway. The myth that dairy is the best source of calcium for humans is a marketing ploy. Sesame seeds are far higher in a higher quality calcium than dairy for instance. Millions of people manage just fine without dairy foods at all.
Any land capable of supporting dairy cattle is capable of being far more productive under other crops; these crops may be more labour intensive but can it be said this is a bad thing?
More local direct marketing opportunities for farmers need to be opened up to bypass these monopolist interests.

[Arsenal]

But what would I use for my cookies??

[alokin]

I think that the whole western world is simply used to dairy since centuries. I guess it would harm us not getting dairy. I'm thinking around how it might be possible having two goat in a suburban context, without giving up my veggie patch. Or having a second goat + tree garden elsewhere.

[Pops]

Most farmers have ups and downs, it can't be avoided when you buy at retail and sell at wholesale, the problem this time is lots of small timers can't get operating loans.

Lets no forget though, just last year the market was way high and people were buying new tractors and land. The only good thing is the run up in commodity prices wasn't as long the one that caused failures by the thousands in the '80s

[Ferretlover]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('The_Virginian', 'g')reat...bankrupt the "little" guys so you can gobble up the assets at a fire sale for increased vertical intergration...

[deMolay]

Another win for the little guy against the Central Planners of the State. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/nat ... le1439008/