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The 2010 PO.com Oil Price Challenge

Discussions about the economic and financial ramifications of PEAK OIL

Re: The 2010 PO.com Oil Price Challenge

Postby Keith_McClary » Sun 03 Jan 2010, 01:22:49

US EIA Short-Term Energy Outlook-December 8, 2009 Release (Next Update: January 12, 2010)
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'E')IA expects the price of West Texas Intermediate (WTI) crude oil will average about $76 per barrel this winter (October-March). The forecast for the monthly average WTI price dips to $75 early next year then rises to $82 per barrel by December 2010, assuming U.S. and world economic conditions continue to improve. EIA's forecast assumes that U.S. real gross domestic product (GDP) grows by 1.9 percent in 2010 and world oil-consumption-weighted real GDP grows by 2.6 percent.

EIA 82 75 82


marketwatch
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'B')y the end of 2010, however, Patrick Kerr, a managing director at Amerifutures Commodities & Options, expects to see crude-oil prices to return to record levels and reach $150 per barrel, taking retail gasoline prices along with them -- to $5 per gallon.

Hi = Close = 150, low = end 2009 price?

(Alaska) Revenue forecast released amid Parnell reviewing oil taxes

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'C')reated: 12/10/2009 09:47:33 PM PST

ANCHORAGE, Alaska (KTVA-CBS 11 News) - Revenue Commissioner Pat Galvin painted a very different economic outlook for Alaska's budget, after last budget year's tumultuous oil market.

"What a difference a year makes," Galvin said. "Prices began upwards of $130-$140 a barrel, and by the time we were releasing a revenue forecast five months later, they had declined into the $20s."

In stark contrast, Galvin now predicts steady budget times ahead. While the state's projection last spring said oil would remain about $58.29 per barrel this fiscal year, now officials predict an increase to about $66.93 per barrel. Next budget year, Galvin forecasts about $76.35 per barrel.
The Alaska State government's Fiscal Year begins July 1.

Crude Oil Predictions and Targets: Round-UpSeveral predictions here.
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Re: The 2010 PO.com Oil Price Challenge

Postby Keith_McClary » Tue 05 Jan 2010, 01:28:05

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Keith_McClary', '
')Crude Oil Predictions and Targets: Round-UpSeveral predictions here.
I'm too lazy to go through these to see if there are Hi/Lo/Close predictions. Maybe someone will take a look in Jan 2011 before we award the grand prize.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_code('', '
<p>Anyway, let&#8217;s take a look at some projections and commentary on the near term outlook for crude:</p>
<p><strong>Credit Suisse (moderately bullish)</strong></p>
<blockquote><p>&#8220;This is the first stage of the new cycle as the demand recovery on a global scale is underway,&#8221; said Tobias Merath, head of commodities research at Credit Suisse Group AG in Zurich. &#8220;What&#8217;s capping any break to the upside is the huge over-hang of distillates in the U.S. and low refinery margins.&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p><strong>B of A/ Merrill Lynch (turning bullish)</strong></p>
<blockquote><p>Bank of America-Merrill Lynch raised its 2010 U.S. crude oil CLc1 price forecast on Friday to $85 a barrel, from its previous estimate of $75&#8230;its revision follows a stronger than expected rebound in world economic recovery, which led it to also revise up its GDP and oil demand forecasts.</p></blockquote>
<p><strong>Morgan Stanley (longer-term bullish)</strong></p>

<blockquote><p>Morgan Stanley has raised its forecast of U.S. crude oil price to $105 a barrel in 2012 from $95 due to tightening spare capacity. &#8220;Assuming that demand returns to growth, we see global spare capacity back to 2007/08 levels by 2012, and getting even tighter thereafter&#8230;We believe that prices will need to move higher to ration demand as the world struggles to find enough supply.&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p><strong>Goldman Sachs (bullish short and long-term)</strong></p>
<blockquote><p>U.S. investment bank Goldman Sachs expects oil prices to rise to an average $90 a barrel next year, before increasing to $110 in 2011, as strong growth in emerging market economies boosts crude demand.</p></blockquote>
<p><strong>Deutsche Bank (bearish)</strong></p>
<blockquote><p>While many experts predict higher oil prices, Deutsche Bank analysts say they could fall to $60 a barrel next year, as the sluggish economy dampens demand. That would represent a drop of more than 20 percent from recent levels&#8230;the analysts predict an average price of $65 in 2010.</p></blockquote>
<p><strong>Mexico (nervous and hedging)</strong></p>
<blockquote><p>Mexico has hedged much of its 2010 net oil exports at $57 a barrel, the government said on Tuesday, continuing the conservative strategy that reaped huge profits in 2009 after the credit crisis crushed oil prices. Mexico paid $1.172 billion for options that guarantee a minimum price of $57 a barrel for 230 million barrels of oil exports next year.</p></blockquote>

<p>Sources:</p>
<p><strong><a href="http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSLD45057820091113" target="_blank">BofA-Merrill Lynch ups 2010 US oil forecast to $85 (Reuters)</a></strong></p>
<p><strong><a href="http://moneynews.newsmax.com/streettalk/Deutsche_Bank_Oil_Drop/2009/12/09/296325.html" target="_blank">Deutsche Bank: Oil Could Drop to $60 (Money News)</a></strong></p>
<p><strong><a href="http://news.alibaba.com/article/detail/energy/100171166-1-morgan-stanley-ups-oil-price.html">Morgan Stanley ups oil price f&#8217;cast to $105 in 2012 (Alibaba)</a></strong></p>
<p><strong><a href="http://thereformedbroker.com/Goldman%20sees%202010%20oil%20price%20at%20$90,%20higher%20in%202011" target="_blank">Goldman sees 2010 oil price at $90, higher in 2011 (Reuters)</a></strong></p>
<p><strong><a href="http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601082&amp;sid=awn1RkoWhxz0" target="_blank">Oil Advances as Dollar Falls, Report Shows Drop in Stockpiles (Bloomberg)</a></strong></p>
<p><strong><a href="http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN0813903220091208" target="_blank">Mexico hedges bulk of 2010 oil exports at $57/bbl (Reuters)</a></strong><br />
<strong></strong></p>')
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Re: The 2010 PO.com Oil Price Challenge

Postby basil_hayden » Tue 05 Jan 2010, 09:40:36

I've been contemplating my entry for several days.

I feel like I have too much knowledge to make an accurate prediction, if that's possible.

Of the last few years, 2010 seems like it could be the year where anything can happen - big moves up or down, based on geopolitics, the dollar, the US economy, someone actually noticing that production is declining, etc. I think the bumpy plateau will get more volatile this year but not as bad as the next and nowhere near as bad as 2008, so I'm going with:

High: $105.83

Low: $65.17

Close: $84.19

But I'm not nearly as comfortable with these numbers as I was with last year's numbers, however I was really comfortable with my 2008 prediction which was way off. Go figure.

Best of luck to all the contestants and Thanks pup55 for managing this exercise!
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Re: The 2010 PO.com Oil Price Challenge

Postby Timo » Tue 05 Jan 2010, 12:00:13

High - $193 due to wars in Mexico, Yemen, Iran, and Egypt.
Low - $71 due to silly visions of a new reliance on Russian oil to save us.
Close - Who knows since it won't be tied to the dollar any longer.
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Re: The 2010 PO.com Oil Price Challenge

Postby pup55 » Tue 05 Jan 2010, 12:13:33

High: 117.1
low: 55.01
close:87.28

I did the regression analysis on the high and low data for the last 6 years. The high forecast above was computed using the trendline y=12.11X - 24224 where X is the year.

Similarly I computed the low at 45.01, y=1.22149X - 2110 except I added 10 dollars because that was how far off of the low I was this year.

The yearly close on average, has been 47% higher than the yearly low (which would have made it about 82) and 79% of the yearly high, which would make it about 92, so I took the average of those two, which would make it about 87.

Keeping in mind that R-squared for the high trendline is about .5, and .05 for the low (basically nonlinear) so this is essentially a random number generation....

I just don't think the economy will be able to stand $3.50 gas, at least for very long..... and I do not see it getting down into the 40's as long as china keeps using all of that oil.....

I should do that calculation of the US crude oil energy cost as a percentage of GDP, except that the current GDP does not really reflect what is going on in the economy right now......I bet it would be something on the order of $120 to have the same effect as $143 did in 2008...since the real economy has probably contracted 20% since then....

.
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Re: The 2010 PO.com Oil Price Challenge

Postby pup55 » Tue 05 Jan 2010, 17:47:39

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', ' ')High Low Close
TreeFarmer 88 38 63
eXpat 100 70 90
alpha480v 125 75 99
jdmartin 118 70 90
SeaGypsy 92 68 87
Hawkcreek 168 69 119
Armageddon 219 75 201
OilFinder2 84 64 68
IslandCrow 140 70 105
wisconsin_cur 138.95 32.16 55.12
Cog 110 74 90
davep 140 60 120
mcgowanjm 78.51 27.25 27.25
2cher 136 72 123
TheDude 120 45 65
Gerben 101 65 78
pablonite 169 69 113
AlexdeLarge 88 35 40
Bas 168 68 148
eastbay 147 72 137
SteinarN 112 71 102
Repent 120 10 70
thylacine 150 60 100
obixman 120 64 110
Daniel_Plainview 125.15 66.6 83.73
lateStarter 104 68 98
Nike62 95 40 80
Carlhole 100 60
TheAntiDoomer 96 58 73
Comp_Lex 90 40
rangerone314 72 152 90
careinke 135 65 125
biofuel13 168.25 62.5 162.47
vtsnowedin 152.5 51.25 117
ColossalContrarian 119 64.38 102.76
sparky 98 55 60
PeakOiler 96.5 62.4 78.25
shortonsense 95 55 75
Midessa 100 75 100
basil_hayden 105.83 65.17 84,19
Timo 193 71
pup55 117,1 55.01 87.28




avg 121 62 95


Everyone should probably check what I have here, because I have been known to do a typo from time to time.

KeithMcClary thanks for posting some of the predictions from the media. I am not at all sure they are any smarter than we are....It will be interesting to look back in a year or so.

Saudi had the price figured at 75 two years ago when the actual price went to 140.
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Re: The 2010 PO.com Oil Price Challenge

Postby TheDude » Tue 05 Jan 2010, 19:38:59

I pasted your list into my spreadsheet, plugged in my numbers to see whose calls were closest to mine, and your high diff from my call got translated as "-120." So you think they'll be giving it away? :lol: 8)

You put in a comma by mistake, is all. Same with basil's close. Actually if my calls came out right on the money you'd be #2. It'd be fun to throw some of these MSM analysts in the pot, too. This Price Challenge, I mean. Some of them deserve a good stewing as well.

Carhole, Comp Lex, and Timo need to supply numbers for the close.
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Re: The 2010 PO.com Oil Price Challenge

Postby PeakOiler » Tue 05 Jan 2010, 20:52:28

Here's what I have:

Image

I'm not sure why our averages are different. After reviewing the list, I did find one error in my spreadsheet, but the averages still didn't match.

I sorted the data by Overall, then name.
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Re: The 2010 PO.com Oil Price Challenge

Postby copious.abundance » Tue 05 Jan 2010, 22:14:16

mcgowanjm's high price is already wrong. :lol:

If it's not too late, I'd like to bump up my high price to $88, my low price to $66, and my closing price to $77. I've decided to go for aesthetic elegance rather than theoretical justification. :)
Stuff for doomers to contemplate:
http://peakoil.com/forums/post1190117.html#p1190117
http://peakoil.com/forums/post1193930.html#p1193930
http://peakoil.com/forums/post1206767.html#p1206767
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Re: The 2010 PO.com Oil Price Challenge

Postby kmann » Wed 06 Jan 2010, 13:03:48

High: 95
Low: 58
Close: 75

Reasons: Slow economic recovery, little demand growth in the US, the high will go to 95 only because of speculative excess, 2010 will be alot like 2009 as far as oil consumption and production is concerned.
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Re: The 2010 PO.com Oil Price Challenge

Postby Kez » Wed 06 Jan 2010, 14:49:34

High $198
Low $ 70
Close $198
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Re: The 2010 PO.com Oil Price Challenge

Postby Arsenal » Wed 06 Jan 2010, 16:55:37

High: $134
Low: $67
Close $ 89
If the American people ever allow the banks to control issuance of their currency, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that grow up around them will deprive the people of all property until their children will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers occupied. T Jefferson
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Re: The 2010 PO.com Oil Price Challenge

Postby kublikhan » Wed 06 Jan 2010, 18:26:53

High: $125
Low: $70
Close: $105
The oil barrel is half-full.
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Re: The 2010 PO.com Oil Price Challenge

Postby pup55 » Thu 07 Jan 2010, 10:06:05

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')'m not sure why our averages are different.


Probably because of those typos that TheDude pointed out. I told you I make a typo from time to time.
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Re: The 2010 PO.com Oil Price Challenge

Postby PeakOiler » Thu 07 Jan 2010, 20:05:35

Here is the latest revision:

Image

I added the late-comers to the list. Where's Dante? Ludi? frankthetank? et al.? It is an interesting game, imo, and reflects the attitude of so many po.com members...

Please check your numbers everyone! As The Dude pointed out, a few folks still need to guess their closing price estimate.

If anyone wants a copy of the spreadsheet, send me your email address in a PM.
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Re: The 2010 PO.com Oil Price Challenge

Postby Keith_McClary » Thu 07 Jan 2010, 22:23:29

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Re: The 2010 PO.com Oil Price Challenge

Postby pup55 » Fri 08 Jan 2010, 08:11:53

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', ' ')High Low Close
TreeFarmer 88 38 63
eXpat 100 70 90
alpha480v 125 75 99
jdmartin 118 70 90
SeaGypsy 92 68 87
Hawkcreek 168 69 119
Armageddon 219 75 201
OilFinder2 88 66 77
IslandCrow 140 70 105
wisconsin_cur 138.95 32.16 55.12
Cog 110 74 90
davep 140 60 120
mcgowanjm 78.51 27.25 27.25
2cher 136 72 123
TheDude 120 45 65
Gerben 101 65 78
pablonite 169 69 113
AlexdeLarge 88 35 40
Bas 168 68 148
eastbay 147 72 137
SteinarN 112 71 102
Repent 120 10 70
thylacine 150 60 100
obixman 120 64 110
Daniel_Plainview 125.15 66.6 83.73
lateStarter 104 68 98
Nike62 95 40 80
Carlhole 100 60
TheAntiDoomer 96 58 73
Comp_Lex 90 40
rangerone314 72 152 90
careinke 135 65 125
biofuel13 168.25 62.5 162.47
vtsnowedin 152.5 51.25 117
ColossalContrarian 119 64.38 102.76
sparky 98 55 60
PeakOiler 96.5 62.4 78.25
shortonsense 95 55 75
Midessa 100 75 100
basil_hayden 105.83 65.17 84.19
Timo 193 71
pup55 117.1 55.01 87.28
kmann 95 58 75
Kez 198 70 198
Arsenal 134 67 89
kublikhan 125 70 105



avg 122 62 95


Okay, here is the official list of entries. Naturally anyone who finds another typo will get the love and respect of the PO.com community.

Any late comers who wish to join up later on can feel free to do so, at the risk of losing an incremental amount of love and respect the longer they wait.....

I will post the official standings in a couple of days, Thanks TheDude and Peakoiler for helping me keep track of all of this and providing a verifying mechanism.
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Re: The 2010 PO.com Oil Price Challenge

Postby PeakOiler » Fri 08 Jan 2010, 20:14:24

pupp, (respectfully), I think you have rangerone314's high and low price estimates switched which may explain our average differences with the data.
Last edited by PeakOiler on Fri 08 Jan 2010, 20:35:32, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: The 2010 PO.com Oil Price Challenge

Postby PeakOiler » Fri 08 Jan 2010, 20:22:48

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rangerone314', 'L')ow: 72
High: 152
Close: 90
<<snip>>
There’s a strange irony related to this subject [oil and gas extraction] that the better you do the job at exploiting this oil and gas, the sooner it is gone.

--Colin Campbell
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Re: The 2010 PO.com Oil Price Challenge

Postby pup55 » Fri 08 Jan 2010, 22:00:30

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'O')kay, here is the official list of entries. Naturally anyone who finds another typo will get the love and respect of the PO.com community.


$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'p')upp, (respectfully), I think you have rangerone314's high and low price estimates


Woo Hoo! You get the love and respect of the community!
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