PeakOil is You
Collective Memory and Revenge
by ubercrap » Wed 04 May 2005, 18:58:29
Oh, some people did leave the country to avoid being drafted into the army, yet you don't mention their sacrifice. Justice and resituition? How would killing me or destroying my country be justice? I wasn't even born when most of the things you spoke of happened, anyway, my parents spoke out at the time about the Vietnam war after they became adults, and my father was able to escape military service, though barely. Ah, now your tune changes, you were talking about revenge before (understandable), now you are calling it justice and restituition. I'm sorry, those things will never happen. We could never repay for the destruction caused, even if you are as greedy as we are, nor can dead people be held accountable for their actions, nor should their children be. Even after realizing what this war in Iraq is really about, I really think we should choose another path. What would you have me do, commit suicide? It isn't going to happen.
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ubercrap - Lignite
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by Wildwell » Wed 04 May 2005, 19:22:11
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('lorenzo', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Wildwell', 'O')f course the oppressed have had a whiter-than-white history of human rights, war, torture and all the rest. If you wish to side with them you must have similar moral standards.
Wildwell, sorry, but there's absolutely no comparison between what e.g. the USA has done in Vietnam and what Iran's totalitarian mollahs are doing. Really, you are comparing atomic bombs with hand grenades here.
Or take a bit of your own history. There's no comparison between what the British did in Kenya (basically they committed a holocaust, as if colonial terror alone wasn't enough) and what e.g. Arap Moi has done to the Kenyans after the British left. Stop making skewed comparisons.
And one word about personal responsability. You remind me of those Americans who we now see on our tv screens, when they remember their motives for joining the army during the Vietnam war. They all said: I had no choice, everyone was going to the war, we had to do it, they pressured me into it, etc... All bogus. They could have said: fvkk off, I won't go. ALL OF THEM could have said that. They didn't. All of them continuously hide behind larger power structures so as to hide their own responsability.
Anyway, to come back to the main point: the damned of the earth may be no angels, but their resistance and anger is legitimate. I hope you're not denying their right to justice and restitution.
What about what Germany did? What about 9/11? Look at what some of the African coutries are doing now to themselves? As for the French, we've had 34 wars with them, some they started, and some we did.
For example (1792-1798)-Britain, Austria, Prussia, Spain, Russia, Sardinia and Holland combined to fight Revolutionary France. The French have had wars with everyone in Europe. Between 1689 and 1697 the French and Spanish were at it. The French even had a war with the Indians. The French invaded Italy as well.
There's hardly a nation on earth that hasn't been involved in war.
I wasn't aware I was joining any army by choice? I'm not interested in fighting anyone unless they turn up on the shores. Last time we has widespread conscription was when the Germans were going through their nationalist phase. If I remember rightly, after tramping through France and Belgium, the Brits, French and Americans (and many others) joined up to free Europe. We had to pay them a lot of gold and give them allsorts of secrets and technology of course, which they never admit to, but they (the US) weren’t too keep on having a massive German or Russian Empire over the water, so it suited both parties well. Meanwhile it took over 30 years to rebuild Europe; they were becoming the superpower they are now.
Here's a site so you can see what naughty girls and boys we've all been
http://www.zum.de/whkmla/military/warindex.html
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Wildwell - Heavy Crude
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by lorenzo » Wed 04 May 2005, 19:46:09
Wildwell, first of all: I don't know how you will behave in the voting booth tomorrow, so I have nothing against you personally. But if you vote Blair, you vote a convicted war criminal into power. That's all I can say.
Now, you make some cool observations.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Wildwell', '
')What about what Germany did?
Now, you make some cool observations.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Wildwell', '
')What about what Germany did?
The Germans are the most peaceful nation on the planet and have been so for the past 6 decades.
There are no Germans in Iraq. Germany is not any longer a nation that worships war, unlike the Anglosaxon nation.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Wildwell', 'W')hat about 9/11?
That was a mad action by a mad man. This in no way justifies an all out war based on lies, against an innocent nation, killing thousands of innocent people. I'm sure you agree here.
9/11 is something unique, a one-off event, a singularity. The Anglosaxon Axis's violence is permanent and systematic. Two totally different things.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Wildwell', 'L')ook at what some of the African coutries are doing now to themselves?
What are some African countries doing to themselves? I honestly have no idea what you're referring to.
Your comparisons are a bit bizarre, I think. You are comparing regional conflicts based on very traditional and specific factors (ethnic rivalry, land issues, etc...) to a hyper power's devotion to permanent war.
Anyway, what do you think of the idea that those who have been subjected to the violence of the Anglosaxon Axis might use a Peak Oil crisis as a pretext to release their anger which is kept vivid in their collective memories?
(And by the way: please do not vote for the war criminal. Look at the brave and courageous Spaniards: they voted out Bush's off-shore dictator in Europe. I hope you do the same).
The Beginning is Near!
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lorenzo - Intermediate Crude
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