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Polluting pets: the devastating impact of man's best friend

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General interest discussions, not necessarily related to depletion.

Re: Polluting pets: the devastating impact of man's best friend

Unread postby dinopello » Wed 23 Dec 2009, 23:28:53

When the humans are all extinct, killed off by our own excesses and foolishness, I wonder if the dogs will look back on the time with fondness. Dogs love trucks !
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Re: Polluting pets: the devastating impact of man's best friend

Unread postby mos6507 » Wed 23 Dec 2009, 23:37:32

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', '
')Mos, lets explore this out a bit. You seem to be supportive of some kind of control of the world's dog population.


First off, we ALREADY try to control the pet population, as Bob Barker says, through spaying and neutering, and euthanasia as a last resort, all things that are currently off the table with humans. Population reduction with pets is easier to do humanely because pets don't live as long as humans. Within about 15 years you could reduce the entire domestic pet population down to any desired size assuming 100% compliance.

For the record, I love pets. I don't have any, though, (except for the adopted chipmunks who are eating the stuff I put out for them in the backyard). I see this as a canary in the coalmine. It's not a matter of demonizing pets or pet owners. Pets are great. In an ideal world, it shouldn't be an issue. We're entering an era equivalent to a hot air balloon that is losing buoyancy and people are arguing over who or what to throw overboard. Of course it is ridiculous, because we're in an extreme situation which terminates with soylent green and zombie hordes! How should we react to this? Knee-jerk dismiss it as extremism? That would be to dismiss overshoot and imply that BAU is sustainable. If that's the case, we really have little else to discuss.

So what do I suggest? As a start, I suggest we promote not having pets as an ecologically sound lifestyle choice, or to at least follow the path the food travels just as we do with humans in order to minimize impacts. Same deal with human diets, but luckily we're omnivorous, unlike dogs and cats. Do I think that will fly? Nope.
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Re: Polluting pets: the devastating impact of man's best friend

Unread postby Jotapay » Thu 24 Dec 2009, 00:03:38

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', 'F')or the record, I love pets. I don't have any, though



Maybe we're talking about different things then. Useless purse dogs on one side and working dogs are completely different.

My dog has a job, she protects my house. I'll post some pics of people who my DIY surveillance system catches when they see Angel greeting them on the other side of the door. Even though Angel is the sweetest animal you will ever find, she is incredibly territorial and makes strangers whom she hasn't accepted yet feel very unwelcome.

You have to watch the Nature programs that I posted to see these sheep dogs obey whistle commands and the German Shepherd to detect body chemistry level changes for epilepsy patients. .

My German Shepherd knows at least 50 english words now. I'll have to make a video of what she can do. It's amazing.
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Re: Polluting pets: the devastating impact of man's best friend

Unread postby Jotapay » Thu 24 Dec 2009, 00:10:36

So Mos, do you equate the word "parasite" with "pet":then, as these dimwit envirotards have then?
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Re: Polluting pets: the devastating impact of man's best friend

Unread postby Sixstrings » Thu 24 Dec 2009, 00:28:04

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', '
')Mos, lets explore this out a bit. You seem to be supportive of some kind of control of the world's dog population.


First off, we ALREADY try to control the pet population, as Bob Barker says, through spaying and neutering, and euthanasia as a last resort, all things that are currently off the table with humans. Population reduction with pets is easier to do humanely because pets don't live as long as humans. Within about 15 years you could reduce the entire domestic pet population down to any desired size assuming 100% compliance.

For the record, I love pets. I don't have any, though, (except for the adopted chipmunks who are eating the stuff I put out for them in the backyard). I see this as a canary in the coalmine. It's not a matter of demonizing pets or pet owners. Pets are great. In an ideal world, it shouldn't be an issue. We're entering an era equivalent to a hot air balloon that is losing buoyancy and people are arguing over who or what to throw overboard. Of course it is ridiculous, because we're in an extreme situation which terminates with soylent green and zombie hordes! How should we react to this? Knee-jerk dismiss it as extremism? That would be to dismiss overshoot and imply that BAU is sustainable. If that's the case, we really have little else to discuss.

So what do I suggest? As a start, I suggest we promote not having pets as an ecologically sound lifestyle choice, or to at least follow the path the food travels just as we do with humans in order to minimize impacts. Same deal with human diets, but luckily we're omnivorous, unlike dogs and cats. Do I think that will fly? Nope.


You know what, I looked it up and there are 400 million dogs compared to about 7 billion people in the world. So let's just leave the dogs alone, you can't pin Global Climate Doom on them anyway.

The real problem is that we have too many people on this planet. The problem is a very thorny issue.. most of the world's governments are just not as organized, well funded, and in control as those in the First World and China. Even China is barely able to get close to a one child policy, and they're a totalitarian communist state devoid of individual human rights.

Fact is, the third world just lacks the governmental infrastructure and muscle to ever implement a 0 child policy. So really, there is no solution to overpopulation other than nature taking its course.
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Re: Polluting pets: the devastating impact of man's best friend

Unread postby mos6507 » Thu 24 Dec 2009, 00:46:48

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', 'S')o really, there is no solution to overpopulation other than nature taking its course.


Which, as has been theorized many times on this board, will not lead to a happy ending for most of our pets.
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Re: Polluting pets: the devastating impact of man's best friend

Unread postby pablonite » Thu 24 Dec 2009, 00:52:33

I started reading the orignal article you posted until I got to "New Scientist Magazine". I have watched with my own eyes a once interesting magazine transform into a climate change propaganda rag over the last few years.

I think it's already sad we take pets away from our old folk and yeah, I agree %100 we are looking at a new world order religion based on gaia led by shamans like James Lovelock. They just don't like you! Muhaha!

http://www.newworldorderreport.com/Arti ... uotes.aspx
“The big threat to the planet is people: there are too many, doing too well economically and burning too much oil.”
– Sir James Lovelock, BBC Interview

Oh, sorry. That would be Sir James Lovelock!

Climate change depresses beer drinkers
http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg2 ... nkers.html
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')F THE sinking Maldives aren't enough to galvanise action on climate change, could losing a classic beer do it?

:lol: Galvanise. Don't think! Drink Beer :)
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Re: Polluting pets: the devastating impact of man's best friend

Unread postby mos6507 » Thu 24 Dec 2009, 01:05:37

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pablonite', '
')http://www.newworldorderreport.com/Arti ... uotes.aspx
“The big threat to the planet is people: there are too many, doing too well economically and burning too much oil.”
– Sir James Lovelock, BBC Interview


What is it about what he's saying that is untrue?

And Lovelock is not a misanthropist. He actually wants the UK to be a lifeboat for the world, which is insanity, of course, but it's obviously because he is a compassionate person.
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Re: Polluting pets: the devastating impact of man's best friend

Unread postby pablonite » Thu 24 Dec 2009, 01:32:17

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pablonite', '
')http://www.newworldorderreport.com/Arti ... uotes.aspx
“The big threat to the planet is people: there are too many, doing too well economically and burning too much oil.”
– Sir James Lovelock, BBC Interview


What is it about what he's saying that is untrue?

And Lovelock is not a misanthropist. He actually wants the UK to be a lifeboat for the world, which is insanity, of course, but it's obviously because he is a compassionate person.


This is untrue in my world on so many levels.

The big threat to people is other people - like this guy is a serious threat to other peoples health. Is that untrue?

If you want to give "planet earth" the same individual rights that the corporations got then be prepared to go to court and fight a rock for your right to resources in the future. Don't worry, the rock will be defended by a bureaucrat halfway around the world, you won't be able to afford a lawyer and the ruling will already be predecided.
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Re: Polluting pets: the devastating impact of man's best friend

Unread postby SeaGypsy » Thu 24 Dec 2009, 03:46:15

Dogs will outlast humans. Humans with dogs (well trained, intelligent ones) will outlast humans without dogs. But this says nothing about the ornamental pooches which make up an increasing proportion of the canine population. In Australia a guy walked 900km across the desert last year, alone. He was delerious and malnourished. A pack of dingos followed him over 600 km waiting for him to weaken enough to make a meal of him. Fortunately for him and unfortunately for the dingos, he made civilization before his strength was completely sapped. I will post a link if I can find one later.
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Re: Polluting pets: the devastating impact of man's best friend

Unread postby dinopello » Thu 24 Dec 2009, 11:27:35

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', 'D')ogs will outlast humans. Humans with dogs (well trained, intelligent ones) will outlast humans without dogs. But this says nothing about the ornamental pooches which make up an increasing proportion of the canine population. In Australia a guy walked 900km across the desert last year, alone. He was delerious and malnourished. A pack of dingos followed him over 600 km waiting for him to weaken enough to make a meal of him. Fortunately for him and unfortunately for the dingos, he made civilization before his strength was completely sapped. I will post a link if I can find one later.


Exactly. I read one of the enviro-doom books done in the 1970's called ICE!. It was about a rapid onset glaciated period and was all how how various types of people adapted. The techo-nerd who was taking meteological measurements and may have seen it coming - perished. His girlfriend, an anthropologist or something similar was busy adopting to the eskimo ways (which included the use of dogs to assist in human survival among other things). A side story was what was happening to the other pet dogs once their owners were out of the picture. They, of course reverted quickly back to canine culture, which is instinctual, disciplined, hierarchical and pretty harsh on the little foo foo dogs that can't perform in the pack. Anyway, they thrived. If they could write, though I wonder what they would document about this period. So long and thanks for all the bones?

I find dogs to be very spiritual animals. Some are pretty straight forward and others are pretty mysterious to me. They are nice and warm in a tent though when camping in the snow.
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Re: Polluting pets: the devastating impact of man's best friend

Unread postby mos6507 » Thu 24 Dec 2009, 13:06:36

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pablonite', '
')If you want to give "planet earth" the same individual rights


We're not talking about giving the planet rights. We're talking about trying not to kill the planet that supports us. Why do you have a problem with that? Show me how thing will just work out on their own, no die-off, no soylent green, if we change nothing, not even our mindsets.
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Re: Polluting pets: the devastating impact of man's best friend

Unread postby pablonite » Thu 24 Dec 2009, 21:27:15

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', 'W')e're not talking about giving the planet rights. We're talking about trying not to kill the planet that supports us. Why do you have a problem with that?

My problem is philosophical I guess, the individual versus the collective but I completely understand your argument.

It was my own individual journey, it started like this...

Network (1976)
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0074958/

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I') don't have to tell you things are bad. Everybody knows things are bad. It's a depression. Everybody's out of work or scared of losing their job. The dollar buys a nickel's work, banks are going bust, shopkeepers keep a gun under the counter. Punks are running wild in the street and there's nobody anywhere who seems to know what to do, and there's no end to it. We know the air is unfit to breathe and our food is unfit to eat, and we sit watching our TV's while some local newscaster tells us that today we had fifteen homicides and sixty-three violent crimes, as if that's the way it's supposed to be. We know things are bad - worse than bad. They're crazy. It's like everything everywhere is going crazy, so we don't go out anymore. We sit in the house, and slowly the world we are living in is getting smaller, and all we say is, 'Please, at least leave us alone in our living rooms. Let me have my toaster and my TV and my steel-belted radials and I won't say anything. Just leave us alone.' Well, I'm not gonna leave you alone. I want you to get mad! I don't want you to protest. I don't want you to riot - I don't want you to write to your congressman because I wouldn't know what to tell you to write. I don't know what to do about the depression and the inflation and the Russians and the crime in the street. All I know is that first you've got to get mad. GET UP! OUT OF YOUR SEAT! GO TO YOUR WINDOW! OPEN IT UP AND SCREAM, I AM MAD AS HELL AND I'M NOT GOING TO TAKE IT ANYMORE!!

and ended hereabouts...

Inside the Military Media Industrial Complex:
http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=16647

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')t present, the global dominance agenda includes penetration into the boardrooms of the corporate media in the US. Only 118 people comprise the membership on the boards of director of the ten big media giants. These 118 individuals in turn sit on the corporate boards of 288 national and international corporations. Four of the top 10 media corporations share board director positions with the major defense contractors including:

William Kennard: New York Times, Carlyle Group

Douglas Warner III, GE (NBC), Bechtel

John Bryson: Disney (ABC), Boeing

Alwyn Lewis: Disney (ABC), Halliburton

Douglas McCorkindale: Gannett, Lockheed-Martin.

Given an interlocked media network of connections with defense and other economic sectors, big media in the United States effectively represent the interests of corporate America.


"We" are screwed but not for the reasons "we" are told.
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Re: Polluting pets: the devastating impact of man's best friend

Unread postby Narz » Thu 24 Dec 2009, 22:33:13

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'S')ylvie Comont, proud owner of seven cats and two dogs -- the environmental equivalent of a small fleet of cars -- says defiantly, "Our animals give us so much that I don't feel like a polluter at all.

Sounds logical. :roll:
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Re: Polluting pets: the devastating impact of man's best friend

Unread postby Narz » Thu 24 Dec 2009, 22:39:06

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jotapay', 'I')f you haven't seen it yet, this is an excellent online video about dogs and why we use them as tools to do jobs we cannot do.

http://www.pbs.org/wnet/nature/lessons/ ... orld/4803/

Thanks! Will watch.

Re : this issue. I love dogs (though not as much as cats) but there's no denying their ecological impact. Unless you feed your dog vegetarian. Which is somewhat unnatural but feasible (the record for longest lived dog was just broken, IIRC, but previous was held by a vegetarian pooch).

I plan to get a dog someday & I also have a kid. Some beings are worth the cost, IMO (and, of course, the cost of either can be drastically reduced with a bit of intelligence).
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Re: Polluting pets: the devastating impact of man's best friend

Unread postby Sixstrings » Thu 24 Dec 2009, 23:12:39

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Narz', 'R')e : this issue. I love dogs (though not as much as cats) but there's no denying their ecological impact. Unless you feed your dog vegetarian. Which is somewhat unnatural but feasible (the record for longest lived dog was just broken, IIRC, but previous was held by a vegetarian pooch).

I plan to get a dog someday & I also have a kid. Some beings are worth the cost, IMO (and, of course, the cost of either can be drastically reduced with a bit of intelligence).


I really don't understand where you see the "ecological impact." The article I posted said something about Fancy Feast cat food with "choice cuts of meat." Well, for one thing dog food does NOT contain "choice" cuts. In fact, they put meat trimmings and scraps into dog food. Basically, if it doesn't go into a hot dog then it goes into dog food.

Other than that, most dry food is largely vegetarian anyway (read the ingredients, bet you'll see corn at the top of the list).

Pretty much every possession we have comes with a "carbon footprint." So why single out dogs? Why aren't we picking on golf courses, McMansions, SUV's, air travel, cosmetics, designer clothes, ipods, iphones, the interstate highway system, car travel in general, etc. etc. etc.
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Re: Polluting pets: the devastating impact of man's best friend

Unread postby Narz » Fri 25 Dec 2009, 21:14:12

Fair points. I'd happily give up Xmas over pets! :)
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Re: Polluting pets: the devastating impact of man's best friend

Unread postby VZR1800 » Fri 25 Dec 2009, 23:42:29

We have three dogs and two cats. All but one of the cats were strays that we took in willingly. What would y'all have us do, leave them as strays to die?

Sorry, cannot do that. I do not want, or have any human babies. But I am a sucker for a dog with a certain look. And I spoil them accordingly.
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Re: Polluting pets: the devastating impact of man's best friend

Unread postby Pretorian » Sat 26 Dec 2009, 00:51:03

Really, that is batshit crazy. Dogs arent enviromental parasites, people are. Get as many big dogs as you can and feed them proper food (meat, meat, meat, meat ) to make some enviromental change. You cant legally deal with the overbreeding scum yet but sure as hell you can outcompete them for food.
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