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THE US Fossil Fuel Stockpiles Thread (merged)

A forum for discussion of regional topics including oil depletion but also government, society, and the future.

Unread postby energyaddict » Thu 03 Mar 2005, 07:20:23

Brent price is up USD 0,80 from yesterdays closing - up to now. Is there a connection between texan refineries and London Brent price - I would say no!

2005 will be a very interesting year... :o
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Unread postby 2007 » Thu 03 Mar 2005, 07:30:24

I can understand if products are up after a refinery fire.

But shouldn't a ref fire mean more crude?
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Unread postby tpm » Thu 03 Mar 2005, 10:00:47

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('2007', 'I') can understand if products are up after a refinery fire.

But shouldn't a ref fire mean more crude?


If burning refinarys equals more crude, let's free Hussein and give him a lighter.
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Unread postby mgibbons19 » Thu 03 Mar 2005, 10:09:13

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('2007', 'I') can understand if products are up after a refinery fire.

But shouldn't a ref fire mean more crude?


You would think. Poster above doesn't understand what you're getting at.
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THE US Gasoline Stockpiles Thread (merged)

Unread postby NevadaGhosts » Thu 31 Mar 2005, 17:22:43

A fall in gasoline stockpiles already? Just last week I read news articles claiming higher gasoline reserves than expected (which lowered the price of oil). Something's not right here. Answers anyone?

http://money.cnn.com/2005/03/31/markets ... /index.htm
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Re: A fall in gasoline stockpiles? What's the deal here?

Unread postby ohanian » Thu 31 Mar 2005, 17:43:11

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('NevadaGhosts', 'A') fall in gasoline stockpiles already? Just last week I read news articles claiming higher gasoline reserves than expected (which lowered the price of oil). Something's not right here. Answers anyone?

http://money.cnn.com/2005/03/31/markets ... /index.htm


They are just "excuses", 'ruses","words" to justify whatever the economists
wishes to push down your throat. They never talk about the
fundamental reason why the price of oil has gone up.
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Unread postby pup55 » Thu 31 Mar 2005, 20:52:20

A new report comes out every week. It's released at 10:30 AM on the US-EIA website.

Last week, supplies were up, and the market got soft. This week supplies are down, the market goes nuts.

With the market nervous like it is, even numbers in a given direction will cause a lot of stir if they are too far off from peoples' expectations.

What you need to look for is a longer-term trend, such as, if the supplies go up or down several weeks in a row. Until that happens, it's just random, like vegas.
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Unread postby BabyPeanut » Thu 31 Mar 2005, 23:25:42

High demand due to high population consumes reserves faster. The same volume doesn't last as much time as it used to.
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Unread postby ernest » Fri 01 Apr 2005, 00:54:05

The oil and NG reports come out weekly and have big impacts on crude and NG prices.

Also, with a refinery fire in Texas, there is huge bad news for gas supplies. USA refiners are already working at peak capacity and no new refineries built in THIRTY years.
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US stockpiles of oil

Unread postby Raxozanne » Wed 04 May 2005, 08:45:36

Whenever I read a news report on oil prices it always seems to me like they are saying that the oil price is based mostly upon US stockpile levels. So that if stockpile levels are up, then prices fall, alternatively if stockpile levels fall then prices go up. Someone mentioned a while ago that these stockpiles in the case of an emergency would only last a month or less. So why do stockpile levels have such an impact on world oil prices?
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Unread postby BigBear » Wed 04 May 2005, 09:11:27

Very good question Raxozanne and one that has puzzled me for along time also. With the U.S. having approx. 320 million barrels in reserve and using approx. 20 million barrels/day--this means they have a whole 16 days worth in reserve--hardly anything to jump and shout about. I believe it is the IEA that recommends all countries have at least a 90 day supply of oil in reserve --meaning 1,800,000,000 for the U.S. alone-something that obviously will never become reality.
All I can suggest is that they play on the ignorance most people have in this area of actual oil use--320 million sounds like and is alot of oil--the number gives people a false confidence and hence helps to lower market bidding.
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Unread postby mididoctors » Wed 04 May 2005, 09:19:15

IIRC the number of days refers to the number of days the SPR could substitute for foreign imports. IE internal US production is not counted as the SPR is or was designed to overcome disruptions from further afield

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Unread postby aahala » Wed 04 May 2005, 09:40:13

The news reports of the connection between US reserves and crude prices
are possibly overstated.

To the extent it's true, it's because in the short run neither demand nor production can change much, so any increase or decrease in the amount
available in the next few days or few weeks must mostly come from reserves.
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Unread postby BigBear » Wed 04 May 2005, 09:44:12

Thanks Boris--yes that makes sence--of course---still though you have to wonder why an amount so small would affect traders so as 320 million barrels is only approx. a one month supply if only figuring in import replacement--maybe not even that--so still nothing to jump and shout about. It still makes no sence that traders should be so affected by this relatively small amount of reserves.
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Unread postby RonMN » Wed 04 May 2005, 10:09:13

There are the stratiegic oil reserves...the oil reserves that are in the pipeline (about to be turned into gasoiline)...and gasoline "stocks" How much is already been turned into gasoline & waiting to be sold.

Watch to see which of the 3 they are really talking about.

The only way the STRATIEGIC reserve should matter is that it takes oil OFF the market, therefor less oil on the market means higher prices. If this particular reserve was opened up today & all the oil released, then prices would drop to about $10 a barrel...but leaving us with nothing for an emergency.
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Unread postby pup55 » Wed 04 May 2005, 12:54:25

We have been following the weekly inventory report in the "current events" thread for awhile.

What is important is not the size of the stockpile, per se, but the "energy balance". People are focusing on this number emotionally, and even the stock traders are using it as a short-term indicator of economic strength.

If US consumption is 20 mbd, and US production and imports are 20 mbd, then demand and supply are in balance for that week, more or less, and the inventory does not change.

If consumption is 20 mbd and US production and imports are 21 mbd, then the inventory goes up by 7 mb for that week. Similarly, if consumption goes down to 19 and production plus imports stay at 20, inventory goes up.

Same thing in reverse, if consumption is greater than production and imports, the inventory goes down.

The oil traders and others are looking at these inventory figures every week as a gauge of whether or not the supply/demand balance is correct. For about the last 4 weeks, inventory has gone up, refinery usage has stayed the same, so we can deduce from that, despite the gloom and doom, there is sufficient supply at the moment, given the level of consumption we are experiencing.

The balance was negative back in the January/February time frame.

When this inventory starts to drop it means we are either consuming more, or producing or importing less. There is some noise in the system, though, and these big oil tankers hold 2 million barrels, so if a tanker shows up on Friday instead of Monday it can make a noticeable difference in the inventory balance. So, you have to not get excited over small fluctuations, but look at trends over time to see what is really happening.

Per the above, refining is constant, inventories are going up, we are building inventory, there is enough oil, for now.
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Unread postby BigBear » Wed 04 May 2005, 15:15:54

THANKS Folks for your explanations---they helped tremendously-- :-D
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Unread postby JoeW » Wed 04 May 2005, 16:38:00

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pup55', 'W')hat is important is not the size of the stockpile, per se, but the "energy balance". People are focusing on this number emotionally, and even the stock traders are using it as a short-term indicator of economic strength.

Pup55 gave a excellent explanation of the situation, and frankly, I'm surprised that there were questions about it because it is pretty basic economics. The inventory level says all you need to know about supply, demand, and price. When inventory is increasing over time, then product isn't moving fast enough, so the price should go down. When inventory is decreasing over time, the product is priced too low and the price should be increased (which is precisely why there shouldn't be any "no gas left" signs at the pumps any time soon). The price is the grease that keeps the whole system flowing.
So in general, the inventory levels should be a good predictor of price. But are they? Keep in mind that we are looking at US crude inventories in what is a Global market for the product. The US is a big chunk of the global market, but doesn't tell the whole story. It may be more useful to look at your country's inventory of finished petroleum products, and then look at the price of that product in your country.
There are also seasonal adjustments that would have to be looked at as well, since history shows that gasoline use becomes exaggerated in the summer, fuel oil consumption increases in the winter, etc.

Bottom line: Inventory is important.
Big question: Why have prices gone up even though current inventory is not a problem by historical standards?
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Unread postby smiley » Wed 04 May 2005, 19:45:28

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he oil traders and others are looking at these inventory figures every week as a gauge of whether or not the supply/demand balance is correct. For about the last 4 weeks, inventory has gone up, refinery usage has stayed the same, so we can deduce from that, despite the gloom and doom, there is sufficient supply at the moment, given the level of consumption we are experiencing.


It is basically correct, but you have to correct for the seasonal variations in demand.

This is the building season where they have to replenish the heating fuel stocks from last winter and they have to build up gasoline stocks for the next driving season (June through august).

Therefore the stocks have to go up in this period. So it is not just absolute levels, but also a matter of how fast they are building. You have to compare the stocks to last year, not to last week, which is a mistake a lot of people make.

If you take this week as an example. The total stocks increased by a good 5 million barrels. However last year the same week the stocks went up by 7 million barrels. That is the reason why prices aren't dropping on the report. The stocks are growing, but they are not growing fast enough, which could spell problems later in the season when demand picks up.

We have seen a drop in the last week, but that was mainly due to the GDP report. As it turns out a slowdown in the US as well as the world economy is expected. This means that the demand for oil will decrease, or at least not grow as fast. That is why the oil prices fell, not the oil market report because it was fairly neutral.
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Unread postby khebab » Wed 04 May 2005, 21:39:42

Everything is in the way you present the data. If you look at the number of barrels, we are on the high range. However, if you divide your oil inventory by the forecasted consumption you obtain the equivalent number of days of projected consumption. Because demand is growing fast, the number of days is actually declining compared to previous years.
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